Narrator:
0:03

Welcome to Literacy Talks, the podcast for literacy leaders and champions everywhere. Brought to you by Reading Horizons. Literacy Talks is the place to discover new ideas, trends, insights, and practical strategies for helping all learners reach reading proficiency. Our hosts are Stacy Hurst, a professor at Southern Utah University and chief academic advisor for Reading Horizons; Donell Pons, a recognized expert and advocate in literacy, dyslexia, and special education; and Lindsay Kemeny, an elementary classroom teacher, author, and speaker. Now let's talk literacy.

Donell Pons:
0:47

So this is going to be a little different episode today of Literacy Talks. Obviously, the first difference is I'm introducing us, Donell Pons, and I'll be today with my co-host Lindsay Kemeny. And Stacy is traveling today, so she won't be able to join us, and we're going to be giving you guys an update. So it's been a while since we've chatted with Kristie Nelson, and if you don't remember, Kristie joined us in an episode a little while ago after she discovered that her son has dyslexia, and this was a discovery Kristie made as a mom and an educator who had gone back to receive some additional training, and through that training, became aware that her son was more than likely struggling with reading because of dyslexia. And so the training paid off not only for renewing a license, but also then she was able to tap into some resources at her local school, and those resources were available because of some training too. And so this has been a really fun thing for us, . I really appreciate you joining and being so open with us, because I think this is a situation that's occurring across the country as people become more aware about reading difficulties, why people struggle with reading, and then getting resources for helping students be able to read, so I anticipate this will be an interesting conversation. Last time we left you, you had gotten some help with the school. First of all, they went ahead and did some testing. You came to the conclusion this is we're looking at dyslexia, and then you were receiving some accommodations, and so you said that at the time you were hopeful. It sounded so good. Things were looking really good. When you look back, , what stands out to you about that time? Is there anything that you want to share with us now that you didn't realize at the time that you've now realized going forward?

Kristie Nelson:
2:37

Just, I mean, how much he was actually struggling, and we didn't realize it because he was compensating, and like his-I mean, his grades were fine, and his teachers were like, "Oh, he's always the highest of like the low group. But now looking back, I was like, "Holy cow! He was really struggling. One of the things that really jumped out is they-I saw his test scores that they take, like the I don't even know what test it is, but like the state RIT score maybe I don't know, but the jump he made from like fall of fifth grade to the end of fifth grade was just like it was crazy when I saw his test results, how far he jumped. Like in the fall, he was at like a 195, and he jumped all the way up to a 210 in math, and like in reading, he was at a 187, and he jumped all the way up to 205, which was just crazy to me. the The amount that he jumped, like he was in the red, and he jumped clear up to like the yellow, which is just below like the grade level. So, and I don't some of this I think in like his language scores went from a 179 clear to a 205. I mean, so I mean, it was just like a large jump, and if you look at his chart, it kind of goes like this, you know, and then it's like this huge, just this huge jump. And I, I forgot to ask him. I think he had accommodations on these testing, so they might have like read it to him or had a scribe for him. But we actually got like a real gage of what he knew and where he was at once he was able to get the accommodations, and so the testing really was kind of a crazy. And I mean, I know it's not all about tests, but that was a big jump. And then just his the way his reading improved with just in a few months of like targeted intervention, I was like, man, he really struggled with reading, and now look at us go, you know. So yeah,

Donell Pons:
4:52

and Lindsay, so you know Christy Lindsay being a teacher who teaches reading and does a fantastic job. And has has been doing these things for a while, Lindsay. This isn't unusual, is it? When you finally are able to say yes, this is what it is. Get some student some help. You should be seeing some progress, right?

Lindsay Kemeny:
5:13

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, just like really being able to target, drill down, see exactly what they need, provide an intervention that's really specific to that child, and we should see great results.

Donell Pons:
5:26

Yeah. So, , this is classic. This is what we love to see. Means we're on the right track, right? And you mentioned you didn't realize how much he was struggling. So, how has your understanding of your son and his learning needs changed over the past year with this knowledge.

Kristie Nelson:
5:44

I think for me, just realizing that like he does learn differently, but once he under like once we've targeted and really worked on that phonics, like he can get it, he can do it. And I think for my husband too, he would always be like, "Stop guessing. You knew that word before. Like, why are you guessing? You know, or, or you just need to. I mean, like try harder, or you can do this because you're a smart kid. So why aren't we getting it, you know? And now even him be like understanding, like he's not guessing at the word. Like it's literally part of dyslexic that he like changes the words, or he knows a word and then he forgets it two sentences later, so I think that's been really helpful. And I know with Braxton, he's been like, just like, oh my gosh, it's so much better getting all the help and the support. You know, he's like, I've never had that much support, and like he even has recognized like, oh, I'm starting to struggle reading again, and what can we do to, you know, work on it and get better and stuff like that? So,

Donell Pons:
6:47

Lindsay, this is pretty typical, isn't it? To hear things like, "Oh, they're just not trying hard enough. So, your parents-you've-you've probably been through this before too with parents when they get the revelation that there's a reason why they're struggling, and how it changes the conversation, doesn't it?

Lindsay Kemeny:
7:02

Yeah, it's always nice when there there's a clear reason why, you know, and it's harder when it's you know, I guess when it's just it's not it's not so clear, but yeah,

Donell Pons:
7:16

yeah, and it really clears up that that miscommunication that oftentimes we have because we think this must be surely this must be just an effort, right? Because I'm doing all of the things, but when you realize no, there's a specific reason for it, and there will be a specific thing to do to help your student. Well, and that's so

Lindsay Kemeny:
7:33

frustrating because these kids usually are working harder than anyone else. So for them to hear "work harder" or try harder that can feel like a slap in the face when you're like I already am working hard. It's just like it's not their fault, right? It's like it's a lot harder for them than some of the other kids. And learning a new new thing, learning AI spells a the sound a is takes a lot more practice and repetition for them than than someone else, and it's just not fair. You know, my heart just breaks for them because it's just it takes so much more for them to remember, you know, something and and and to learn certain things than other people. They just they need more practice and instruction.

Donell Pons:
8:14

Yeah, it's going to take some time. So you've already mentioned you've seen a great deal of improvement in his reading, and how about his writing? And , just overall, his attitude towards learning. What have you seen?

Kristie Nelson:
8:28

Yeah, so his writing has also improved. He's slowing down. He's taking his time, and his like his writing is actually eligible. He's been working with the OT specialist as well to help with his writing, spelling is still we're working on that.

Donell Pons:
8:45

Sure,

Kristie Nelson:
8:47

but he's you know getting there, and then reading. So this year has been the transitional year. We went from fifth grade, which is typical elementary, to sixth grade, which is in the middle school. So we've been going from one class and one teacher to seven different teachers and seven different classes, and that's been quite an adjustment. Just like figuring that out and trying to get all the work done, and you know, classes are only 45 minutes, and then he's got like homework, and so trying to like figure all that out has been a little bit of an adjustment, and we finally I think are getting it. He does have a study hall period. I think all the kids in our school do. It's like a half an hour, I believe. But he goes to study hall with this special education teacher, so he receives like homework help in study hall, and but like that's kind of all it's been for this year is homework help, and we haven't been doing the targeted phonics instruction that he was getting last year, and his reading is like he's starting to skip words again. Struggle more with it, and he's even noticed it. He's like,"Mom, it's harder to read. And so I reached out to the special education teacher, and I just said, "Are we working on the phonics? Because I've noticed he's struggling with reading. Braxton noticed he's starting to struggle a little bit, and she said, "Well, it's been quite a transition, and we've really just been doing homework help and study hall, and she goes. But I think I need to do phonics first, and he can do homework at home. And I said, Yeah, he's not going to really like that, but I can help with homework. And so she's going to start doing the targeted phonics intervention that he was doing last year, it's the same program. He's going to be doing that again three times a week at least with her, and then I'll be helping him more with homework. But hopefully, because he's kind of figured things out, he hopefully won't have as much homework. But we'll see. And then she also, the special education teacher, said that he's been really good about advocating for himself. So if he needs to go read out loud by himself in a quiet space, he's been really good about telling his teachers, and they allow him to go down to the special education room to work on stuff down there when he needs time. And she said, yeah, he's been really good about advocating and telling the teachers like, hey, this is what I have going on. This is what I need. So that's really pretty good. Yeah. So, and I think we've been reading at night, but the part he would read a page and I read a page, but then our book got really good. So then I was just reading because we wanted to like

Donell Pons:
11:36

cruise. Yeah,

Kristie Nelson:
11:38

we wanted to hear what happened, and so I even I was like, I'm sorry. We'll get back to like making him read and I read to practice, you know. But at least he's interested in a book and he wants to read every night. So yes, count that. And that's amazing. Yeah.

Donell Pons:
11:54

Yep. Yep. Keep that up. It's all good. So , I want you to give folks a little understanding here because we've had a conversation to understand your setting, getting access to resources is not as easy as just saying, "Hey, where's the nearest tutoring center? or "We need additional help, so we'll just go down. No, tell give us a little about your setting. You're in town.

Kristie Nelson:
12:16

We are very rural Montana. It's very small town, so I think within our actual town, there's maybe 1000 to 2000 people. Within our county, we're maybe at you know 3000. But like our town, we have one stoplight. It's like a mile and a half from one end of our town to the other. Like, and we're an hour and 20 minutes to the nearest like larger city that has like a Walmart and a bigger healthcare facility with like specialists. So here, like we're also rural healthcare. So we have a great clinic, great doctors, great NPs. But anything specialist, you have to drive an hour and a half at minimum to get to like a specialist, and so yeah, there's not really like there's not tutors or reading centers or anything like that within the near like anywhere near it'd be an hour and a half two hour drive,

Donell Pons:
13:17

yeah, just to get there one way. And , you've already expressed that some of the teachers. I love your school relationship because you've already stated that when you start noticing something, you feel comfortable calling, and you're able to have a conversation with those at the school because this really is a partnership between you and the school and trying to help your student. And I love that I see you reaching out and accessing that, and that they're responsive, and then you also happen to mention that your son's teacher, as a result of having your son and coming to an awareness, has gone on traditional training. Tell us a little bit about that.

Kristie Nelson:
13:52

Yeah, she had just mentioned that this summer she had-I don't know if it was like official training-but she said she listened to a bunch of like podcasts and taken some classics about dyslexia and studied more about that. And our intervention, Kayla, interventionist Kayla. I'm pretty sure she said that she studied up a little bit more too about it and took some classes specifically on dyslexia and just got some more understanding and awareness about what it is and how to help these kids?

Donell Pons:
14:23

Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny:
14:25

I would love just to point out a couple things. Where , you were saying, you know, he was really doing really good in fifth grade, and he had this great intervention. And I think it's it's really common we see this growth, and then think maybe a little too soon that oh they don't need the intervention anymore. So then you know he moved to sixth grade and you like you said he was going to special education room, but mostly just getting homework help rather than that targeted intervention. So I'm so glad you brought that up to them because and and how great that the school was so responsive to your concern that I think he still needs a phonics and. Intervention, you know, you're like he still needs it, and so that was awesome. You said that, and really awesome of the school to be like right away. Yeah, I think you're right, and we're gonna like you know change course here. And yes, we're gonna make sure to get him that intervention because I think you know it just takes them a little bit. You want them so proficient that they just know it, and he had barely gotten there maybe by the end of fifth grade, and just needed more to make sure to sustain that growth that he had. You know,

Kristie Nelson:
15:27

yeah. Well, that was one thing. Like I was just like, I'm so like I'm not mad at myself because like we caught it as soon as I knew what it was. But I'm like, if I could have caught in this in second grade or third grade, then we could have had that targeted intervention. So by the time he hit sixth grade, he was like strong reader. You know what I mean? And now where he's going from class to class to class, that was also part of the problem. Is his IEP says he's supposed to have so much of targeted intervention, but it was like trying to find a time in his day when they could do it. And I know, like his study hall, there's other kids that also need help, you know. And so just trying to find that time. But she said she's like, yeah, I've noticed he's struggling reading his science stuff more. And I, you know, and she was like, yeah, I think we need to just go back to that intervention program, and sometimes so.

Lindsay Kemeny:
16:19

And the other thing I was thinking about was you were saying like they were just doing homework with him and so now you need to do that at home with him, and I was just thinking about you know it's hard when you you jump to middle school and he has several classes and I assume there's you have some accommodations set up in his IEP but it might be something still worth visiting where like how long like you said if he has a lot of reading to do in science, then a great accommodation is going to be that it's read aloud to him, that he has access to, you know, the the text to speech. Or how long does it take him? A lot longer than other kids. I don't know about his processing speed, but if it takes him so much longer to do something, then shortening assignments might be an important accommodation to him for him too. I'm just thinking about it's so hard when they work so hard during school, and then they come home and have to do hours more. You know, and so

Unknown:
17:15

far,

Kristie Nelson:
17:16

luckily we haven't had like hours of homework. Yeah, and especially because he's been getting a help in study hall, so we'll see how it goes this week. Because this week they're going to start it, so yeah, we'll see. But that's a really good idea to see if he's getting that accommodation, maybe short assignments or getting it read out loud. Yeah, I know. Like at the beginning of the year, he brought home something where he had to write a lot, and I was just like Braxton, you can have a scribe, and I'm just gonna be your scribe. So I just wrote it because I was like, otherwise, this is gonna take us like yeah hours. And that's

Lindsay Kemeny:
17:49

that's a great one. It's like you can put speech to text in his IEP. You could say or have a scribe, either one. Allow oral answers sometimes is one. But I would even if you have teachers right now that are just amazing and doing it anyway, I would get it put in as IEP because as you go through the years, like you never know, you never know if there's a teacher that's going to push back and and and might not have a full understanding of the disability. You know, we've just I've come across that with with my son, where they don't they don't think he should need that, and and even every year they try to test. They think he doesn't need the accommodations, and um and I'm like he really does. There was a quiz he got my son got like two out of 10, and I asked him what happens. You know he's like I didn't have enough time, and she said to put it away, and he's supposed to have extra time on tests, so he went after school, retook the test, got 10 out of 10 because he had enough time. So I'm like, no, the accommodations are so important for these kids.

Kristie Nelson:
18:49

Oh, that's really good to know, Lindsay.

Donell Pons:
18:51

I'm glad you reminded all of us of that because , this is one thing now that you're on the the dyslexia team, you're with us on this journey, is that it is up to us to make sure that we're keeping an eye on those accommodations. As Lindsay said, things may change depending on the class, and to help your son understand too that it's okay if his needs change. Because a lot of times students get to this level where I don't want to be uncomfortable asking for X, Y, or Z. They're okay giving me this. I don't want to push back on and getting your son comfortable with things may change next semester. I may need this, and that's okay. I think that's very helpful for someone to get used to. And then let's remember, Lindsay, you pointed out something really important. You always have dyslexia, so even though I am so proud of the dyslexic folks with dyslexia in my life, they still need accommodations when it comes to say taking a test that's timed with a lot of reading, and my husband, I think I told everyone about this just a little while ago. He wanted to take another realtor test, another state. He wants to get another license. He's oh, this is so great! I've been doing this forever, and he's so confident with his reading because it's improved so much with all the work that he's done. He didn't even think about accommodations, so he goes ahead, signs up for that test, doesn't even tell me. He takes it, and it's a disaster because he's being timed, and he just wasn't used to that anymore because he's so confident. Otherwise, he gets done with it, and he goes, "Oh my gosh, I bombed it! I didn't even get to finish it. And I said, "Did you ask for your accommodations? And he goes, "No, I got confident. I said I wasn't going to ask, and we got him his accommodations. Took it just fine. So Lindsay makes a very good point that those are things they're always entitled to. It doesn't matter how old you are, right?

Lindsay Kemeny:
20:32

And when it's in writing and it's in their IEP, I mean, it is law that the teacher has to follow it. And so, like I like sometimes you're going to come across a teacher who who might push back, but it's like, well, that's in his IEP, and if you think he doesn't need it, then we're going to have a meeting, and a whole team is going to discuss it, but not just that one teacher deciding when they maybe don't have a full picture yet of the student's needs. You know, so I think it's just kind of nice to make sure. And as a team, you can kind of talk and discuss what he needs because not all kids with dyslexia need the same accommodations, right? It depends.

Narrator:
21:06

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Donell Pons:
21:48

And , you've said something really important that I want to touch on too, because I want to reassure you that you are not alone when you said,"Oh, I wish would have recognized this in first or second grade. This is happening every day across the country, and I get calls every day. I mean, I wish I didn't, but it seems like it's just about every day, but at least a few a week from people who are in their adulthood, you know, 30s, 40s, because I've heard that I work with adults and say, I think I have dyslexia. I've really struggled, and I'm thinking they're in their 30s or 40s, you know, and no one knew. So be grateful today. You know, and you're on it, right?

Kristie Nelson:
22:27

Well, and hopefully it will help my little second grader now that we know. So, but yeah, I'm just like, dang it! If I just would have known, because you know, he gets to junior high. We don't have like the reading specialist and the intervention and all that we had access to really in elementary school, yeah, and he's still going to get it. We just have to.

Donell Pons:
22:47

It's harder,

Kristie Nelson:
22:48

yeah. You know, figure out the time and do it a little differently. So,

Donell Pons:
22:51

and , you're pointing out why we work so hard on legislation for K through three. That's why they push so hard in those grades. Is because, like you say, it's it we get faster results and it's easier because they're younger, and that's what they're expected to do is to be reading to learning to read, and so there's time set aside for that. Yeah. So , I mean, this has been great so far. I know there's going to be parents who are just so grateful that you're having this conversation. But what are you most hopeful about as you look forward to this coming year? What What are you hopeful about for him? I'm

Kristie Nelson:
23:23

hopeful we're starting the phonics intervention again, so I'm hopeful we're really going to hit track and get back on track with our reading and really get like solid foundational skills under our belt, so that our reading can progress and get better as we go throughout the year, you know. So that's one thing I'm really hopeful that we'll see his reading continue to increase. And right now, like he is a hard worker and he wants to get good grades, and his grades have like they've been doing pretty good in all of his classes. I mean, A's and B's, which is a big jump from where we were at, where we were like season bees, you know. So I feel like he's just going to make progress, and I feel like we have a good base. We have the IEP in place, so he can't ask for those accommodations. So yeah, I'm just hopeful. I don't know if that was the answer to your question, but

Donell Pons:
24:20

no, absolutely

Kristie Nelson:
24:22

hopeful that we'll just keep improving our reading. And like I said, he does show an interest in wanting to read, which is also a big jump from where we've been. So I'm just hoping that he'll like continue that desire to want to read,

Donell Pons:
24:35

yeah, and

Kristie Nelson:
24:35

just keep improving. And then you know, also like as we get those foundational skills, phonic skills, I'm hoping our spelling will get a little better. Like I said, our writing's already improved, and I don't know if it's because he's working with OT or he's just slowed down, or they've just pointed out. But I am grateful that our writing has improved, and I'm hopeful that. We can just keep improving our writing skills as well.

Donell Pons:
25:03

Yeah, Lindsay, anything you want to add about the spelling? Because it does take a little while longer.

Lindsay Kemeny:
25:08

Well, the phonics intervention will also help with spelling, and hopefully, as they're teaching him phonics skills, they're also like embedding spelling practice, and he's writing during those lessons, like having him spell words. Yeah. So and and but it is it's very common that the spelling lags behind the meaning, like just across the board. That's typical.

Donell Pons:
25:29

Yeah. So be yeah, be patient and hopeful because you are that the spelling will improve over time as well. And this is valuable information for other parents, . Trust me when I say there, there will be folks listening going, "Oh gosh, this is this is hitting home for me. These are things that I've been concerned about or worried about, and just how does someone get that conversation started? So we're so appreciate you taking the time to speak with us. And is there anything that we didn't cover today that you wanted to say? Anything you haven't been able to say about your experience.

Kristie Nelson:
26:03

No, I mean overall, the school's been fantastic to work with. I was really grateful that they were able to do the testing. I think I said this in the last podcast. I was just grateful they were able to get an actual dyslexic diagnostic. Like I didn't, I didn't even know what test to administer to get that diagnosis, you know. So, and I'm grateful that I now have the knowledge that I have, so I can help my second grader who is also struggling. And we'll just see where he's at. They're doing a bunch of the testing with him right now, but I'm afraid we're at kind of the same point we're at with Braxton, where he's doing well enough, and he's going to test well enough. There's not a big enough gap for him to qualify for anything yet, but we'll see where the testing where the testing takes us. You know where it puts him, and then Micah is the reading specialist, and she's like, well, and she's like, he shows a lot of the same similarities to Braxton. So she's like, I know exactly what we need to do. We're really gonna hit the phonics with him, and we're just really gonna keep an eye on him because he's like Braxton a lot of ways. He's in the lowest reading group, but he's the high end of the low group. But he also gets a lot more frustrated than Braxton ever did. He's like, I'm stupid and I'm slow and it takes me so much longer and my friends are so much faster and it's just trying to explain like, buddy, we have different strengths, we have different weaknesses. This one might be a little bit more of a weakness we have to work on, but you can also throw baseball better than any of your friends, you know. So yeah, I'm grateful that at least I know. And it's hard at a second grade level, like with Braxton, he would like read a paragraph, and I'd be like, "Oh, he's skipping this letter. He's changing this. He's doing this. Beckett's not fluent enough to be like, "Okay, are we changing words? Are we skipping words? Do we just not know the word? So, but he will get a word, and then a sentence later he'll forget and not be able to read the same word. So, but I am grateful now that at least have the knowledge, and that the school has the knowledge that they're aware, and they're looking at Beckett as well as Braxton, and just grateful for all the work you know the school has done, and that Braxton's actually-I wouldn't say threat. Like he's doing well with the transition. He's in sixth grade. He's moving class to class, and he's able to to complete the work and do the work and and do well, so

Donell Pons:
28:45

yeah, yeah, you're adjusting, you're figuring it out, and you're adjusting.

Kristie Nelson:
28:49

Yeah, yeah, figuring it out. So,

Donell Pons:
28:52

and I love to hear that even though your other student is looking a little different from him, that testing is being weighed in with other factors. Lindsay, weren't you pleased to hear that too? That the teacher is saying, "But with your family history, and with those things, we're still going to hit the phonics. So they're not going to wait to fail or see this young person, you know, really struggle before somebody's going to do something. So I loved hearing that that they're looking at everything together to say, okay, how can we really support this student? So that's a bonus. That's a bonus as well.

Lindsay Kemeny:
29:26

And what like really concerns me too with your younger, your little second grader is just the negative self talk that he's getting into because you know self esteem and the ability of readers are tightly connected. And so I like that you're saying you know you are pointing out some other good things about him. I my son would really say a lot of the same, a lot of negative, and I started really. He was all just really negative about his brain, and so I started like attributing lots of different things to his brain to help. Like when he did do something, I'm like, look at that! Look how what your brain was able to. Do amazing and kept saying these little positive things, and then even though he hasn't been diagnosed with dyslexia, you can assume he probably has dyslexia because it's running in your family, and like it might be helpful to tell him like, no, you are not stupid, you are not, you are very very smart. Your brain, you know, it's it learns a little different way, and it's a little bit harder for you to connect the sounds with the letters. It's just how your brain is. It's not you, and you could still be very, very smart. And you know, there's little books, like little children's books about dyslexia. There's little videos like on YouTube. I did like would share with my son a lot of those just trying to build, and he really felt good being part of like a community of other people that had have dyslexia. You know that really helped because it's like, oh my gosh, look at all these successful people! Look at like two of the four sharks on Shark Tank have dyslexia, and just you know, just showing them like, no, you guys are in this together. You can do it.

Kristie Nelson:
31:02

Yeah, that's really yeah, because he really he gets really down on something that he doesn't want to try. And then, and I forgot about this, but we're getting now where he's like, "Oh, my throat hurts so bad, I can't go to school. And I'm like, "Buddy, you don't have a fever. He's like, "Oh, my belly really hurts, and I can't go to school. And

Lindsay Kemeny:
31:19

he has anxiety about it, yeah. We're starting

Kristie Nelson:
31:21

to get and with Braxton. It was the same thing. Like I totally forgot that Braxton though. Like he was like the hardest one. I'd be like,"Are you really sick, or are we just not wanting to go to school? And he would stay home, and they'd be like, "You're fine. You're not sick, you know. Yeah. And once he got the help and the accommodations, like actually stopped, and he doesn't like fight to go to school anymore because he's getting the help, but now Beckett's like starting to be like. And last night I was like, Beckett, does your throat really hurt? He's like, well, there's just I have to I get pulled out for all this testing, and then I have to get try and get caught up on my work, and I can't get caught up, and then I have homework, and and I mean he's at school from eight to four. He doesn't want to come home and do homework all night, you know,

Lindsay Kemeny:
32:01

right? And

Kristie Nelson:
32:02

so I'm trying to be like, okay, well, the testing's almost done. You know, I have the meeting next week, and we can get through it bit by bit. And it might

Lindsay Kemeny:
32:10

be something to bring up with the teacher because sometimes the teacher is just so busy and doesn't even realize. But if he is pulled out for testing, then he really shouldn't have to do all that stuff that you know they did while he was out of the room because suddenly he's having to do way more than everyone else and doesn't have enough time. You know what I mean? So like she needs to adjust, and it might be like as a teacher you just don't even think about it. He comes back in the room, the papers on his desk. The boy, your son, thinks he has

Narrator:
32:38

to do it.

Lindsay Kemeny:
32:39

You know where we bring it to the teacher's attention. She might be like,"Oh yeah, here you were gone for half an hour, so just do this much, you know, do

Kristie Nelson:
32:46

a portion of it. Yeah. So I don't know. I'm real curious to see where his testing where it puts him at. But yeah, I totally forgot that. Yeah, we did this with Braxton for like multiple years. Like, if I was like, "You don't have a fever, you're not throwing up. You're going to school, you know. But then Becky's like, "Well, I threw up in the middle of the night, and I'm like, "Did you really? Because you never came and got mom. Like I didn't hear anything,

Donell Pons:
33:11

you know. Like I

Lindsay Kemeny:
33:12

just, yeah, I think it's so important to to try to protect their self esteem and protect their confidence and do all you can to build that. And as they learn to read, that's going to get better, you know. But in the meantime, try to point out the positive so much and help them try to switch their language to the positive. Like I used to give my son points, like every time he said something positive, because so negative about himself. But if he said something positive, he got a point, and when he got like 10 points, he got a little prize or something. So you know, just trying to change the mindset. Yeah, yeah,

Kristie Nelson:
33:43

because yeah, my little say he's really negative, and anytime he has

Unknown:
33:47

to

Kristie Nelson:
33:47

do homework, it's just like I'm so stupid, I can't do this. Yeah, I want to do it. It

Lindsay Kemeny:
33:51

breaks my heart. Yeah, you

Unknown:
33:53

know,

Kristie Nelson:
33:53

and it's like you can do this. Like you just gotta focus and figure it out. You know.

Narrator:
33:59

Yeah,

Donell Pons:
34:00

and that's a good good suggestion too, Lindsay, about including the teacher in that because, as you say, oftentimes they're so busy they haven't realized. And the other thing is to remind the teacher that he is being tested in language, which is very difficult for him. So it's exhausting. It's even that much harder. I don't think they realize that we're pushing on the hardest thing. That's why we're testing it, and that that's really tough for a kid. It's exhausting physically, mentally, and physically, and oftentimes they just you know like you say we're caught up in what we're doing. We might not remember, so it's a good reminder to the teacher to try to alleviate at least for this while while he's being tested. And then, as you say, bring your young man along with the journey so he knows all of this is for a reason. You're going to get really good information, and he's going to get support. So things should look better and feel better to him, and that's the whole point. And oftentimes, I think we're not really clear about sharing that with young people why we're even going through all of this is so that things will get better. And so you have him tell you were things better as you're moving along. So over the next weeks and month, as things are done, he's part of the team, right? So he needs to give feedback. That'll be helpful too.

Kristie Nelson:
35:07

Yeah, and that's a good point. Like I, when Braxton started testing, it was kind of middle of the year, and so I sat him down and said,"This is what we're doing. This is why we're doing it with Becca. I was just like, I mean, I didn't even like sit him down because I was just like, "Oh yeah, like they're going to be doing testing, and I just didn't even like think about it until like last night. Who's like, well, I gotta go do all this testing and then I have all this work and then I'm like, okay, so maybe this is why like because we haven't struggled the last month and I'm like, well maybe we're like our teacher and we like the kids in our class and maybe we're gonna be doing good and then I was like oh I spoke too soon because now we're back to the same old tricks, but I didn't put together like I finally last night I was like oh I think it's part of it's the testing and I probably do need to like sit them down and explain like this is why we're doing it this is you know there's an end in sight you're almost done it's gonna help us and yeah so

Donell Pons:
35:57

things will get better nice oh this has been so helpful we would have you all day, but I know you are very busy, and we definitely will be checking back in with you because you are on a journey, and it is a journey. And I know that folks are interested, and we're definitely interested in keeping up with you and hearing about all of the ways in which you're learning to support your learners and working with your school because that's what it's all about. It's happening across the country, so we really appreciate you just allowing us this little kind of peek into what what's going on. We know there's a whole lot more, but you're willing to share this little bit of the journey with us, and we really appreciate it. Thank you.

Kristie Nelson:
36:31

Yeah, thank you.

Donell Pons:
36:32

Yeah, you bet. So this has been a great episode of Literacy Talks. We have thoroughly enjoyed our time with. If you have any questions, feel free to email us if there are things that you wished that we had asked that you'd like to know, or if you yourself have some similar questions, things and some questions that didn't get answered. We're happy to answer those or help you as much as we can. And this has been another episode of Literacy Talks. Please join us again next week. Thank you.

Narrator:
37:01

Thanks for joining us today. Literacy Talks comes to you from Reading Horizons, where literacy momentum begins. Visit readinghorizons.com/literacytalks to access episodes and resources to support your journey in the science of reading.