Episode 115: Changing the System: The Story Behind The Reading League

Narrator:
0:03

Welcome to Literacy Talks, the podcast for literacy leaders and champions everywhere, brought to you by Reading Horizons. Literacy Talks is the place to discover new ideas, trends, insights and practical strategies for helping all learners reach reading proficiency. Our hosts are Stacy Hurst, a professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor for Reading Horizons. Donell Pons, a recognized expert and advocate in literacy, dyslexia and special education, and Lindsay Kemeny, an elementary classroom teacher, author and speaker. Now let's talk literacy.

Lindsay Kemeny:
0:47

Welcome to our episode of literacy talks. I'm Lindsay Kemeny, and I'm here with Donell Pons and Stacy Hurst, and we are thrilled to have a special guest today, Dr Maria Murray and Maria, let's jump right into introducing yourself, if you can just tell our listeners a little bit about your background and how you came to what we call the science of reading.

Unknown:
1:12

Oh, that's a wonderful question. Thank you for having me. I came to the science of reading in a different way than many of us who are in this science of reading, science of reading advocacy. Last decade or so have you hear most people say I didn't know about it, and I found out when I heard this or Emily hanford's podcast, I came at it pretty directly by calling Syracuse University, which is where I live in Syracuse, when it was time for me to get my master's degree, and asked them if they had something in learning disabilities, because I knew I was a secondary Social Studies degree, and I saw that students couldn't read the homework. So I wanted to know what that was about. That seemed like a mystery, and I landed directly in the on the shoulders of Dr Benita Blackman, who was mentored and taught by the likes of Jean chall and and Don shankweiler. So when you hear of this thing called phonological awareness, or phoneme awareness, if you look up her name and the National Reading Panel. That's what it's that's what she was about. And also she was a reading scientist investigating how to to remediate reading difficulty. So in the we're already in 2026 and 21 years ago, there already had been 20 years, 2005 to do the math or not, no 1985 to 2005 I have to do the math of federally funded ni, ch, nich, D, grants on, on reading, thanks to read lion and so all of These are one institutions across our country were busy neuroscience and cog science, and we were in this kind of cool, cutting edge time where we were learning the things. And so I wanted to be a reading scientist, and I got to work with the statistics statisticians at Florida Center, and go to DC for conferences, and we worked with the Yale dyslexia center the book overcoming dyslexia the kids in that book was from the shewitt says, those are our kids that we taught at Syracuse University. So what an A what a an alive time to experience. It was wild. Yeah, that's how I did it.

Lindsay Kemeny:
3:43

How amazing, just to learn, you know, I just think it'd be so amazing, right from the beginning, you had this information, right and diving into the reading League. So we want you to take us to the beginning. Like, is there a moment? Or, like, what problem made you realize, hey, we need a reading League. Let us know how it started.

Unknown:
4:03

How about this? These words were the problem. That's not our job. So during all of this exciting time that I just mentioned, were these comments of that's not our job. So when we finished a research study in a school here in Syracuse, or when we then upscaled it to train the teachers to do what we had done. And boy, were they good. Oh my gosh, to put that information in a teacher's hands and have them do that small group and close the gaps. Oh my gosh, I learned so much from them to to then leave the study, pack up your bags and leave and drive away and realize who's gonna, but they're not gonna, but it's they're already being told to put all our stuff away. That's not our job. And then another one a. Uh, right after one of our studies, Congress sent a videographer to Syracuse to kind of get a 10 minute story together of what had been done with all the money. And so he spent all summer in Syracuse, and I would drive him to our different families. We worked with second and third grade non readers, and they were the ones in the fMRI study that is in overcoming dyslexia. And so we knew what life was like before the children could read, the bullying, the teachers telling them just try harder, the parents at the end of a long day when you think you're home safe, but you're not, because why didn't you bring your homework home and your teacher says you're not trying, and the running away. So I that was a big moment for me, one of the pivotal moments, because who's who's gonna tell the parents there's something better out there? Well, that's not our job. Oh, so it was just constant. Where's the department, the phone number, the group that's doing this to be a knowledge broker between the producers of the knowledge and the users for whom they are bothering doing it for so and I have one more little anecdote that struck me as mind blowing, and that was going to the Society for scientific studies of reading conference, and this year, that year, it was in Hong Kong, and I went there to report on a 12 year, almost a 12 year follow up study we did of those two second and third graders, so now they were adults, and we found them, you know, spread all across the country. They left Syracuse, and we could see a pretty dramatic difference between those that we had taught to read and those who were in a comparison group and got business as usual in their schools. So my husband went with me because it's Hong Kong that's going to be a great place to stay over a bit. And he found me. He made me sit at the carousel at the airport. I'll get the luggage. And he came back, not just with the luggage, but with someone else, and said, I found someone that's going to join us on the taxi ride to the conference. Like, how did you know she was she was from Belgium, I believe, and and he said, Well, you all look exhausted, the same thoughts did with a ponytail, like you guys were just working, working, working. Right? He didn't mean his insulting buddy enough to say, Hey, are you here for the conference? Anyway? We're in the backseat of the taxi, and she and I are up with that. And she asked why I'm there, and I mentioned the black men. She goes, Blackman, 2004 so she How did she know? It really hurt my soul, because so I went back like, who is writing articles for teachers? Why are they deploying into Journal of Ed, Psych and all these other journals for the scientists, where, what is the point? That's not our job. So you get the idea, yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny:
8:06

Well, okay, you said something I love, like, I haven't heard the term knowledge broker. Love that, yeah, and that's a really perfect description. I think of the reading league I love. So, so did you like Go and have dinner with a group of people to just chat, like, how are we going to do this? Let's start an organization help to take a little

Unknown:
8:30

journey through my So, knowing all this not my job, stuff was actually true, and there was not anyone it didn't. I didn't. Then say, well, then I'll do it. It wasn't that. It wasn't that quick of a leap. Yeah, it was more of a I got to quit. I don't I taught 10 more years in the SUNY system, eight until I founded the reading league. But same thing, I was teaching my students like crazy. I didn't use textbooks. I used the real, authentic literature, and I I taught everything I could get into them, but within a year or two or three, I'd hear back saying, Hey, can you send me some activities like, oh, because they were working with fourth graders that missed K, 123, a year, you know? Yeah, I said to my own colleagues, what are we going to do? That's not our job. They have to learn in the school. I'm like, well, the school says it's not their job. So anyway, I'm sorry it was. It was a crazy time for my soul. A lot of crying. I was too. I tutored kids for eight years, helping one at a time. Yeah, when the mom could afford to write me a check, that didn't seem right Anywho. So I my husband said to me one day. And I always say, he's, he's to blame for the reading League, or he gets the credit. He said, Why don't we go raise alpacas? Because he his soul was hurting from his job. He hated his work too. And I was, I could not live in a world where we were hurting kids. Now. I. Don't think us owning any kind of farm or working with animals was something I should have said okay to but it seemed like such a yes, crazy idea. I'm gonna I just love to do crazy things in life. So we, that day, met a couple. We called up, and they invited us out, and they're still Finger Lakes alpaca, although they're now in Ohio, go see them, and we spent two or three years with them, and I bring my proof to you. That's the alpaca, okay? I have the whole, you know, I can look up how to, you know, deal with joint and leg problems. You're gonna laugh, you know, deal with the hooves. And I learned to show them at the New York State Fair, and it was just the most beautiful escapism to shut it off. Then I went so far as to call a realtor and my husband. I flew to Louisville, Kentucky to buy a farm, and I did interview at another university in Kentucky, because I would need insurance. Yes, I would need alpacas. We're just gonna put us right into no money like that was never gonna make us any money, but they said I was too into the science of reading to hire me. Oh, my goodness, that's a great one. I have so many stories, different podcasts, someday, like when I'm more brave, we can really go but so we took one, one or two looks at these farms, and said, Okay, finally, the, you know, the midlife crisis, we got to get real, go back to work. And that day, when I went home and was sorting through the mail, that day, I had a conversation with someone, and I realized I wasn't alone, and that I knew at least 100 people that I could rattle off like that, who got it. So my sense of feeling isolated was false, and it was our job. So I called them all and said, Can we start this central New little like merry troop of travelers and and Lindsay, you can talk about this. Maybe you could do the three hour segment in March, and, you know, and I'll do this because of the science of reading. I know that much, and you know that much, and you know, so we could together, yeah. And there is really such a thing as a broke the term knowledge broker. It's a, you know, it can be a person or an organization that has to get that stuff to the user. But I want to just point out how weird that in education, the field, which is supposed to, you know, not recognize, but maybe recognize and respect knowledge. Yeah, this whole field of knowledge was rejected, you know. So yeah, for teachers anyway.

Lindsay Kemeny:
12:50

Well, we are definitely grateful that you didn't continue with your dream of the alpaca farm. Alpaca farm.

Unknown:
12:57

Oh, don't worry. I just don't know. I just

Lindsay Kemeny:
13:02

like maybe later, maybe later in life, Maria, Did you face any early kind of skepticism resistance as you started this league? You want anything you want to share. I don't think what we

Unknown:
13:22

did made our well. So the founders of the reading league were educators in New York State, public private schools, universities, and for some of us, what we were saying basically is that teachers are not being prepared and don't have not been empowered with this knowledge that didn't make us too many friends from some people, of course, right, right, so. But when we first came out. We came out swinging. We were like, You know what? Now, as a CEO of a bit, you know I have to temper, my temper, but I'm not. I was angry because I was, I felt, but I didn't. It took me even a year or two into it to say, Okay, if we're gonna say you don't know when you know better. You do better. You don't know what you don't know, then I have to be giving people a lot more grace. No one did this with intention, maybe willful embarrassment. I don't want this, you know, in my lap. But yeah, so I had a lot of growing up to do too and But thankfully, I had a lot of people telling me this is going to take time, and this is how systems change and change management, communication, science, leadership. A science like I never knew any of these things existed. So I now, in the last 10 years, have had to kind of put my science of reading hat a little to the side and and now become an entrepreneur advocate, you know, run a nonprofit which I had not I thought nonprofits were for churches, blood banks, food banks, I had no idea. One little town near here has over 2000 nonprofits. I had no idea. Wow, doing all this work.

Lindsay Kemeny:
15:30

So, yeah, so what was the original mission of the reading League and did, has it changed across the year, or is it the same?

Unknown:
15:38

It's never changed so far, but I, but you're, you're onto something. It is still that we want to advance the awareness, understanding and use it was just I thought of that on, I think within two days, I had the mission statement. The internet told me we needed a mission statement. That seemed a good one. It just rolled off the website. I had it made. I had a logo made online with $100 visa swipe, you know. So it's just always I followed what you needed to do so that we could quickly get into the schools and do the work. But 10 years has gone by, and the awareness piece of that statement is not so much what it was before, because when we started, nobody even heard the term 10 years ago or knew what it meant for sure. I think we've come a long way in that regard. So maybe down the road, we won't need the word awareness, but we sure are in an implementation right

Lindsay Kemeny:
16:43

era, yeah, yeah. And understanding and use of the science of reading, right? I just think that there's so many misconceptions. And whereas before, you were building more awareness, now you're like, we're trying to protect the term. And there's so many misconceptions about what the science of reading is.

Unknown:
17:02

So they're like the dust bunnies in my house. They're everywhere.

Lindsay Kemeny:
17:11

Okay, so can you share then a little snapshot of the reading league today? So about how many members do you have? How many states are represented.

Unknown:
17:22

The numbers scare me, friends, we were able to go from just a group on living room floors with pizzas and toddlers and puppies to kitchen tables and cafeterias and auditoriums to national in very short amount of time, we had five events a year, every other month and then some holiday time. And within a little over two years, over 4200 educators from Central New York and states around us were driving to our events. Not that they could fit. We could fit. We could only fit two or 300 so they were all free. We got social media attention. So this was 2016 to 2018 and in 2019 we were being asked to talk elsewhere. Patton Pam Kastner said, you need chapters. I'm like, Who are you and what are you talking about? I've got a full time job. I cannot go of what chapters? Isn't that something Alzheimer's Association has like this. It doesn't make sense. Or International Literacy Association has chapters we're no so time marches on, and the reading leak seems to have some magic, that if someone says something, that door opens and we start going in, and someone's there to tell us how. So we now have 46 chapters, amazing. And, DC, District of Columbia, I'm sorry, 45 and District of Columbia. So that's 46 chapters, and the four remaining states are coming on by December. So we should be at that was our goal, to hit 50 for our 10th anniversary. We will be doing that, I think they all have paperwork in and then we'll go into international offices. That's the plan. I don't have a date or time or where to start, but a number of people in different countries are ready to help out. What else did you add? Oh, number. We don't have a membership. We it's free. All we want is to people to connect with us and get sign up for the E newsletter, which is free, and then that gives people access to knowing what the heck we're up to, what resources we've developed, like the curriculum evaluation guidelines and. And other free items like that, or free resources, the compass and so we have, I think, approaching 85,000 members, if you want to call them that, getting the E newsletter with a huge open rate and click through rate. So, yeah, it's, it's very active.

Stacy Hurst:
20:19

That's what was the first year of the conference?

Unknown:
20:24

Yeah, this will be our 10th year. So the first year was the first year, first year, okay, that's the year mark seidenberg's language at the speed of sight came out, and we were sitting on the floor just trying to plan the next thing. And one of our first board members, Michelle, dr, Michelle's story. She said we should have a conference, because she always helped NASA do that. And like, well, if you know how to you just open the mouth and we're gonna walk through and do it. So we reached out. Who should we invite? This person says, How about Mark Steinberg? I'm like, okay, so thankfully, he had a son in college, right in central New York, and said, if you make it during the time I go to parent weekend, I'll be there, and that's why our conference is in parent weekend season. There's a reason. Oh so many weird back stories of just I we have some we're hiring, and we have a new unbelievably talented and bright and systems oriented. Dr Marisa Ramirez Stuckey is our new Cao, and she has said to me repeatedly, she's only been with us seven months. She was Maria. People know about the reading League, and they think it's a big deal and like, oh my gosh, really, she's because I'm I'm just always here in the nuts and the bowls. You don't see it from the outside. I'm like, oh okay, well, that's great to hear. You know, I know we're busy. I'm downplaying it, but there is that sense of, if I think about it, I might fall backwards and not to be heard from again.

Stacy Hurst:
22:01

So it's true, but you know what? That also translates into impact, which is really hard to measure, but I think there's a lot of evidence, oh yes, for what a big difference all of your initiatives, like when you talk about systems change, and we're focusing on change makers here, literally, the reading league is involved in every aspect of literacy. Even, I know they're even having meetings, information, meetings with publishers. Oh yes, they like that is huge, like those are, and that's a that's an area or an arm that I think people don't really think about. I know we have the guidelines you're saying, hey, let's, let's impact things here too.

Unknown:
22:44

So last week, I ran into someone. I had coffee with someone on Friday, a local gentleman that does a podcast, and we became friends. And so once a month, we try to grab coffee together, and someone we both know walked in, and he's like, What are you doing these days? Maria, and I'm like, nothing. And my friends like, What are you talking about? Mike, no, I just want it to be nothing right now, because if you start, the guy will never be able to get to work on time, because I have to tell him everything, right there is no elevator, water, cooler, speech for this, it's just too much. And you know what I think it has? It has to do with the fact that the mission is so relatable, you can't run into anyone whose mom wasn't a teacher, or whose husband had trouble learning to read at one you know, like there's everybody can understand that this is important, whatever, whatever interested party or stakeholder group you talk to, state, Ed, policymakers, philanthropists, they want this.

Donell Pons:
23:54

So yeah, and Maria, I appreciate you took us on that journey, and you talked about the fact that you didn't know what you know today, and it didn't happen overnight, and you allowed that evolution. And that's really helpful, I think, for people, because they see where someone is maybe on this pathway of the science of reading, and they might be intimidated, or they might think much to learn, right?

Unknown:
24:17

I mean, I'm having to learn customer relationship, man relations, management software. I want to not do that. It's hard. I don't It's not interesting to me. I see the value of it. But, you know, but then once I get going in, I'll be like, Oh, why didn't we do this years ago? And this is fantastic, and this can make everything so easy. So, yeah, it's, I'm on the same journey all the time. So I I get what they're going through

Narrator:
24:47

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Lindsay Kemeny:
25:36

Let's go back to talking about the conference we talked about the very first one, and now the reading league conference is just such a huge annual literacy event, I think I am safe to speak for Donell and Stacy. It's just one of our favorites. Like, for me, it's just the bright spot of the year. I so look forward to going to the reading league conference. So how many people attend now, versus, do you remember how many attended? The very first one? 324 Okay, 27 states, though, yeah, wow, yeah.

Unknown:
26:12

In three countries, we met some of our Australian friends that first year. And wow.

Lindsay Kemeny:
26:18

And now, how many attendees now we're we

Unknown:
26:21

try to cap it around 2500 to keep it intimate

Lindsay Kemeny:
26:28

with air quotes. You guys,

Unknown:
26:31

there's no intimacy, but no see people. I love it just tucked away, you know, chatting, catching up, or, or, or or I love seeing starstruck new first timers. We usually have over a 1,001st timers at every conference. You'll see them. We make sure they have a blue ribbon in and welcome them and give them like a suggested path to follow and but to watch them. See Lindsay Kemeny say, I'm sorry I'm calling you up or anyone else on this listening to it, and they were so nice. And talked to me. She signed my book.

Stacy Hurst:
27:08

So cute. The first conference I attended, and talk about awareness, I didn't even know that conference existed. Your conference existed until I don't remember the year. I want to say 2018 or night, it was rising tide lifted that year. But you're right, because before then, and I'm going to say this in a way that some people are probably going to take issue with, but I was stuck going to conferences did not quite align with Oh sure, what I knew. And it was a different vibe. And I think it was not just because I didn't align right, but you when you say intimate, it is. It really is. And that Hurst time, I went to the reading league conference, I met the organizer of plain talk, which I also didn't know existed, by the way, and Jan Hasbrouck and I got to know each other a little bit then, and it really has, I and one of the reasons, I think Lindsay said it is our bright spot. It is the place we get to go to see all of our friends. And not only that, we all love to learn. We do that too. So it's gonna do such a good job,

Unknown:
28:23

you get re energized. To know to a degree that it's it's hard else where I do go to a lot of conferences, but here, very often that people feel a sense of energy of being with your group of people. I mean, and I'm always star struck myself. I couldn't David share last year. I'm like, I can't believe I'm talking to you. I Like, I've known your name my whole career. Oh, stop it. Stop it. Or yesterday, I got an email from Heidi Mesmer. I remember reading everything she wrote like it was a hamburger. Like, now you're emailing me. Hold on a minute. Yeah, it's crazy.

Lindsay Kemeny:
29:06

I think it's so important for people to feel connected with others, and the conference kind of gives that opportunity. But you said something earlier in our podcast today, Maria, where you said that the idea of feeling isolated was false. Yes, and I think that, because I know there's so many other teachers out there who might be the only one in their building, or, you know, that are trying to, actively trying to apply the science of reading. And so, like, I know, for me, finding my people was so just, just an incredible feeling. And then yeah, and it's just like, what you say, like, it takes a league. It takes a league. So finding that league and finding that group, and I think that's one thing I love about the conferences, because, yes, we can find each other online, but then actually coming together and just a room packed with like minded educators. Is incredible, right?

Unknown:
30:02

And to see that there is not only promise in the science of reading, but proof, because you keep hearing people, you hear the success stories, and that motivates you and anyone that's listening that feels like a lone wolf in your school, please come to the conference and find a way to get there, because you're going to find other people and start your own network. It's the league is very much All means all network. One thing I love doing to get to do, what a joy is that we get to reach out to people who may not have felt welcome at a science of reading table in the past. And so that's what our summit often works on, is, know, the ELL experts and educators of color. So we always have a wonderful cohort of that every year, and then they ended up just starting an alumni group this year. So they want to stay together and get a little more funding and make the cohort bigger every year. And just, you know, yeah, there's room with the table. We'll put more leaves in it. We'll pull out more chairs, because everyone's got a part to play. It's just the most delightful part of my job, yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny:
31:16

And so you were, you kind of, you were talking about the summit a little bit, right? So you have this conference, this annual conference, every year, and then you started a summit, a literacy Summit, in the spring. So how long have you been doing the summit?

Unknown:
31:30

The summit is got to be in its fourth year. Now was two years on El work, and then last year, no, yes.

Lindsay Kemeny:
31:40

Anyway, four or five. Okay, that's a little smaller. That one is a little more intimate, right?

Unknown:
31:47

Very different. Everyone learning in one room. You don't go into Choose Your Own Adventure mode. Everyone stays together, and there are panels, and we get better at it every year. This year the summit's a good chunk of two days and on data. So children's data, individual student data, rather classroom data, district data. And there will be workshops and chances to actually learn and going back and impact. And right away, people are bringing teams of teachers to that one. So that is great. That's exciting to see. We're encouraging people to do that.

Stacy Hurst:
32:26

Yeah, I can't recommend that summit enough. I went to the one in Las Vegas. I'll be going to this one. I don't know why I missed the last one, but I am so looking forward to it. And it's everything you've said. It is.

Unknown:
32:38

That's another thing Marisa said. She said, Maria, you don't get it till you go and then you get it. Why is this different? Why would I go? But then when you're there, like, Oh, I see

Stacy Hurst:
32:51

it's intense, yeah, so I love it. It is just, yeah, I

Unknown:
32:56

am getting comfortable chairs, you know. So be there and on your learning hats, that's it's intense.

Stacy Hurst:
33:04

It's great, though. It's really fun. And just for our listeners to know that, we will be having three upcoming episodes with people who are involved at that summit, and so we'll be talking a lot about assessment, which also brings to mind the journal, because the latest journal was all about assessment. But talk to us about how the journal came to be and

Unknown:
33:26

like the best ever, like they're not getting paid, folks, there's no conflict of interest. This is, this is of their own volition. No, the journal was from the Society of scientific studies of reading again, this in particular year in question was when it was in Florida, St Pete speech, and I went down to do I all I had that year was a poster presentation about teacher knowledge and beliefs. So I thought, well, obviously, when teachers knowledge gets built, their beliefs change and then their practices. So I didn't think I had anything star, you know, discovering level or anything, but my colleague and I ended up not being even able to go to the on the beach reception because we got stuck in there two hours with a semi circle of not just doctoral students, but their advisors, who they made come back in four deep who were saying, What do you mean? The teachers don't know about the science of reading, to which all I could say was, What do you mean? What do I mean? Like, where's I'm missing the question here, like, Where would they know about the science of reading? They had no idea that. They didn't know. Wow. And then when you looked around at all the other poster sessions, and feel a sense of joy, like, Oh, look at all these up and coming, they're going to go and teach. No, they're not going to teach teachers. They're in school psych departments. They're going to not. Not be teaching teachers. Oh, so that's when I proposed to everyone at the triple Sr, folks, let's start a journal. Ila has reading research correctly and reading teacher a more user friendly version, right? And Ida has annals of dyslexia and the more user friendly phenomenal perspectives issue, right? Why doesn't triple SR have their SSR journal and a teacher friendly one? So they said, Yes, let's do that, everyone. We're going to go home and do that. And then it never happened. So that was job number one. As soon as we started the reading League and could get it going. How do you start a journal? I don't know. Open the door. Someone will know, and you do it. So that's been doing well. We just finished. We're in our seventh year of publishing that now, and we are so honored. Please, everyone clap for me that our editor in chief is dr, dr jestast, in Texas, and she's, she wants this journal to grow like gangbusters, and so she's got all kinds of ideas. And we're this 10th year anniversary, we're going to be give sprucing up the journal with everything from, you know, different formatting and cover to more thematic content, tying that content to the summit. Say, like making it very cohesive, Maurice is going to be developing with our professional learning team some learning guides so they want you know, how can we increase its utility and value to the reader? And that's what we're working at.

Lindsay Kemeny:
36:42

You know Maria, I think that's when I first met you, because you had asked me to write, contribute an article that was like your second issue.

Unknown:
36:52

I remember real early one, and I will you sent pictures in of working with your kids, and I got it right over there. I remember,

Lindsay Kemeny:
37:02

I remember, you called me and asked me, and I was so nervous. It was like, probably one of the first things I really wrote, besides, you know, my my blog back in the day. Oh yeah.

Unknown:
37:14

Well, a lot of people love that. Thank you for doing it.

Lindsay Kemeny:
37:17

Okay, so we kind of talked about this, because we talked about this, because we talked about the journal, but maybe there's some other things you want to share. So beyond conferences, what are some other ways that educators can kind of engage with the reading League?

Unknown:
37:29

Yes, they should join their state chapter, because I'm remiss if I don't say that the reading league would be nothing compared to what it is now, if it weren't for this chapters and when Pam Kastner asked me that, and I thought it was crazy. Now, look, yeah, and we worried about, how do we guarantee quality, you know, quality control. Okay, right now there's about 500 brilliant, I don't know. I need more words chapter leaders running these chapters. So please reach out to your state. You know, of course, connect with us so that you can get understandings of everything we're doing on a monthly basis, and then join your chapter and pitch in. I mean, I love seeing chapters co host live events across sometimes they join states like Michigan, the state, and sometimes they just come across borders to help someone else run theirs. You know, do you need some volunteers? Or, oh my gosh, we just had that big, huge national book study on the MTSS and so, unbelievable amount of engagement. And you can go on our website under the chapters tab or events, and at any given time, see, in a month what events are available, just you'll see at least five or six or sometimes more, up to 10 or more events that are reading league chapter or national offerings for free?

Lindsay Kemeny:
39:04

Yeah, they're all, and they're all, like, there's so many for free, or just very low cost, like each State chapter, you know, it might be like $5 for, like, a year membership or something, you know. And I love it, because we're all, I think most of us and most of our listeners are all about learning, right? We're like lifetime learners, and so

Unknown:
39:23

we're starting a podcast that's gonna be a surprise. We have another big announcement in April, huge announcement. Very excited about that. Dying to give it up because I hate keeping but

Lindsay Kemeny:
39:38

Maria, come on,

Unknown:
39:42

it's not too far away. I'm not editing it out. Edit it out, and I have not told anyone. It's trust myself to look forward to for you. Yes, definitely. For sure. It's very exciting.

Lindsay Kemeny:
40:03

Okay, is there a certain project that really stands out that you're most proud of?

Unknown:
40:11

Oh, yes, it's, it's, like I said already, making the table bigger. Yeah? Kinds of reading, yeah, okay, because I don't, it's not too far away from when I remember being asked, and, you know, when we were just a couple years old, to go out to speak in Cedar Rapids or hot springs, you know, I was just going to, you know, education's always been very female, very white, you know, and it's and I have always been interested in finding an intersection too, because if all means all, and if we don't welcome in the voices of the people who are responsible for all children, we're not going to make that goal happen. So the intersection of the science of reading and equity is very interesting to me. So it's exciting to see like the NAACP come out with a statement about the science of reading. Yeah, fantastic. So that's, that's what I'm most proud of. We have a team, a staff, that's committed to it both, both here locally in Syracuse, and then we have about a third of our staff are across the country, so

Lindsay Kemeny:
41:33

wonderful and reading buddies. We didn't talk about reading buddies. I mean, a TV show like, what are you not going to do?

Unknown:
41:42

Of course, because, well, when we got the funding to go national, we had no time to waste. And there were certain there were deadlines and have to quit your job and like, things, big things were important. And so I knew we needed about X number of square feet. And I remember a sign on a building in Syracuse, and I wanted to be in this in the city. And went in. There were no windows, there was no electricity. It was like an old it was It wasn't like it. It was an old factory from the 1800s it was for steel plows. And so this rugged thing turned into our home, and it happens to be right next door to our PBS station wcny. Of course, we picked that too because it was we wanted to find a home for our live event so we didn't have to pack up a truck and the trailers and, you know, bring the centerpieces and the things, and it would just be easier to have everyone come to one central place with free parking. Anyway. I digress. So Mitch Gellman, our CEO of our PBS, came very first time he walks into our space and says, You guys are gonna have a television show. I'm like, Oh, he just saying that because he wants to work with you know, like, of course, again, he puts his voice out there, and here we go. Covid hits, and he calls again. He said, so can you help us do a live show every day. Maybe you can get some people with masks and sit six feet apart and teach reading to kids who are home out of school. Schools closed. So I said, What are you thinking? Yes, oh, maybe some read alouds like, that's not reading instruction. Let me think about it, though. But we did do that first. We just literally two people, wonderful people, went and sat and and gave the Syracuse City School District. They had CK alley, I think at the time in the day, this is when covid just happened. No one knew what to even do. Then in the paper, there was an article about two Broadway actors who had been displaced because Broadway's closed, so they're back here in Syracuse, living at home, you know, doing some puppet shows for kids at Ronald McDonald House and entertaining toddlers while mom and dad are trying to work from home. And so I said, My God, these are brilliant. They're funny. They're they're like a combination of sherry Lewis and Mr. Rogers, like kind of that wholesome but sticky and like slapstick stuff. So I said, you know, we wondered, like, could they make the science of reading really funny and make kids not even know they're getting it. So I got money for that in about a minute. It took me, you know, we came up with a budget aimed high, and everyone wanted to fund that in Syracuse, because it was like a trifecta of covid and lost learning, you know, how romantic and and off we went. And the first one. Was pretty simple. The first season, we did 20 episodes, which is unheard of, to have a set built, and the the it was an honor for me to write the curriculum for it, and because Dr Jean chall used to advise Sesame Street. So I'm like, here we are doing this later. And, yeah, so i Oh, my God, I have, like, Mr. Rogers stuff all over here. I just, he's my sweetheart, yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny:
45:29

And if you guys, if our listeners haven't seen any of the reading buddies episodes, you can find them on YouTube, and they are adorable. If you have young students or, I mean, young children, Donell, when your grandchild's just a little bit older, already aware? Yes, watch them. They're so cute. Yeah, yeah, they

Unknown:
45:49

we do phonemic awareness and letter sounds and chaining, yep. Season Three, we have the gnomes doing the tier two

Lindsay Kemeny:
46:01

vocabulary so, and you have Val teams season three. So, like, my class earned, like a little party thing, and we watched the AI, a y, give me

Unknown:
46:12

your address. I'll mail you things for your kids. We have stickers. We'll send you some little candy gummies, so we can maybe send you some of those.

Lindsay Kemeny:
46:23

Oh, that'd be so fun. I mean, and they're, like, mesmerized when they watch the you know, it's, it's well done.

Unknown:
46:28

Well, we got into child labor laws, and then we got real children on the show. All these things you didn't think you'd have to know. And now we have to pay for the set to be stored, and we don't know what to do with the set because we don't need it anymore. So, yeah, but it's on YouTube Kids, which was hard to get on, and that's got millions. I think we're approaching 10 million views now, so, and many states are using it in their daily Yeah, I'm gonna be talking to some Wisconsin PBS folks next week. We're doing a presentation with librarians. And great. The show still got some big interest.

Lindsay Kemeny:
47:05

Yeah. Okay, so Maria, I guess you kind of maybe you can't answer this all the way, but because my last question, what's next for the reading league? And we know it's a secret, secret, apparently, is there anything else you could share, or what's next for you? Anything to share?

Unknown:
47:25

What's next for me is and the reading league is this whole next decade of getting what I would love to see, and I think everyone would agree, is a tipping point where so structured literacy practices and practices aligned with the science of reading are the norm in every classroom in every district. Do you think we can do that in 10 years? I think so. It's ambitious. Sometimes when I go out there in the world, I'm like, Oh, we got a ways ago still, but I think we're going to work very hard to keep the knowledge going out there full blast. And also, our professional learning is taking a giant leap. So a lot of people say, I don't even know you work with school districts. Oh, yes. So keep your eye out for a lot of that information. And we have to, you know administrators need some boosting? And, yeah, there's still so much work to do. But I really, I keep saying this because I know when I say something, you put it out there, and it happens, I want Terrell to be a nonprofit that actually gets to close its doors, because it's work is done. So, that's the goal.

Stacy Hurst:
48:46

And, you know, I believe that that can happen in 10 years, because you are focusing on systems, right as well. I mean, we have every aspect, and just because some of our listeners are college professors, I know that you even help inform syllabi and programs on the university level too.

Unknown:
49:05

That's wild, right? Because it's really cool. I'm giving a keynote at the university I left in next month. Wow, campus, you know, didn't like when I left, what I had to say, and now I'm being

Lindsay Kemeny:
49:23

that's what we need to do, because we can't create this division, right? It's all about coming together, move the work forward. So that's right. So neat. What a full circle moment.

Unknown:
49:32

Yeah, it is. Thank you for saying that. It's true. We see. I try not to think about it.

Lindsay Kemeny:
49:40

Yeah? Awesome. Well, this conversation has been wonderful, Maria, we're so honored that you joined us, and we're so grateful for the change you're making, because we're doing a series of episodes on change and like, Thank you. What an impact you have had, and the reading League

Unknown:
49:57

All of you have. So all of us, I don't. Like the word you when we talk about the reading League, it's we, us and ours. Yeah, we're all in it.

Lindsay Kemeny:
50:07

Thank you very much, ladies. And thank you to our listeners for joining us, and we'll hope you'll listen in tune in next time for another episode of literacy talks.

Narrator:
50:20

Thanks for joining us today. Literacy Talks comes to you from Reading Horizons, where literacy momentum begins. Visit readinghorizons.com/literacytalks to access episodes and resources to support your journey in the science of reading.