From Mighty to Masterful: Lindsay Kemeny’s Next Chapter

Episode Notes

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Narrator 0:03
Welcome to literacy talks, the podcast for literacy leaders and champions everywhere, brought to you by Reading Horizons. Literacy talks is the place to discover new ideas, trends, insights and practical strategies for helping all learners reach reading proficiency. Our hosts are Stacy Hurst, a professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor for Reading Horizons. Donell Pons, a recognized expert and advocate in literacy, dyslexia and special education, and Lindsay Kemeny, an elementary classroom teacher, author and speaker. Now let’s talk literacy.

Speaker 1 0:44
Okay, welcome to this very special episode of literacy Talks. My name is Stacy Hurst, and I’m joined by Donell Pons and Lindsay Kemeny, and in this episode, we are so excited for it, because we are highlighting Lindsay’s latest book, and I, if you can’t tell by my voice, I’ve been a little bit sick. So we’re going to let Donnell go ahead and lead out on this discussion. Lindsay, thank you for being with us today as a co host and a guest the same time. We’re excited to discuss this. Yeah, this

Donell Pons 1:19
is going to be a lot of fun. This is a lot of fun, and this is something we’ve been wanting to do for a while, and I’ve let it kind of percolate a little bit, because we want to do a follow up also to some amazing experiences Lindsay that you’ve had from your book, seven mighty moves, and I want to make sure we do that too. So we’re going to try to cover a lot of ground in this interview, but I think it’ll be as enjoyable for our listeners as it’s going to be for us to have this conversation. So this is kind of circling back and being able to catch up a bit about what’s happened since seven mighty moves. And for some of that, I’ve been there, and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it. I love when I’m at a conference with Lindsay and people make recognition, put two and two together, and come up to her, and Lindsay, to your credit, you’re always just really ready to go and so gracious. And also, the people who talk to you, they’re just genuine and and it’s been great interactions to watch. So I’ve enjoyed that second hand kind of watching that too, for you, building this audience and rapport with people. So this is going to be a lot of fun for us. That’s kind of the first where I’d like to start off is you have had quite an exciting time. I alluded to it since releasing seven mighty moves, what has been the most surprising or rewarding feedback, and maybe both that you’ve received from readers of seven mighty moves? Well, I mean,

Lindsay Kemeny 2:33
I’ve talked before how it’s just so scary. I think writing a book is is really scary. You just put your heart into something, you put it out in the world, and anyone can criticize or say anything about it. So I think what I’ve appreciated the most is just all the like heartfelt, genuine responses, reviews, comments that I get from people. And I love, you know, I love when teachers tell me things like, this is making such a difference in my classroom. Or, Oh, I have so much clarity now. Or I tried what, you know, XYZ that you described, and it worked so well. Those kind of things, I just those mean so much to me because I’m like, that’s why I’m I’m doing this, that’s why I’m writing. That’s, you know, I want to help teachers better understand how to teach reading and writing. I want to help students so we have more proficient readers and writers, and so I think that’s what really means the most to me, and it means it means so much to me, like every positive word I get because of how I’m like, so scared, and I’m like, I don’t have thick skin. You know, you should have thick skin if you’re going to be a writer. So I just even more appreciate anyone that says something kind to me or that it’s made a difference for them, because that’s what gives me the courage to keep going. Like, if I didn’t get those comments, I would just be like, I’m just gonna go, you know, back into my little corner in my classroom and just be by myself. But those kinds of things give me the courage to keep sharing.

Donell Pons 4:10
Yeah, you make a really good point, Lindsay, because you’re a teacher at heart, right? And we all know about this as being teachers. It’s not like you stepped out there to tell everybody, hey, look, this is really from the heart. You would put yourself out there because you thought this could be really helpful to other teachers. And that’s a really good point to make, that this whole enterprise was to help others. You know, I’m going to lead you a little bit. I’m leading the little guest here a bit because I want you to talk about some of the incredible experiences you’ve had, one of which is you’ve traveled to Amsterdam, and that’s as far as I mean, I don’t think people understand how far this has gone. Tell us a little bit about that.

Lindsay Kemeny 4:46
It was so amazing to go to Amsterdam. I did a two day workshop on seven mighty moves in Amsterdam and and that was incredible. I was speaking at the International School of Amsterdam. And so there were teachers from Amsterdam there. There were a group of about eight teachers who had come from Norway. And so they and they had, you know, my book, and so they came, and I had some teachers from Belgium there. And it was incredible just being surrounded by, you know, these teachers that teach in so many different places, we all had different accents, and it was so fun just talking and experiencing and listening to each other’s experiences, you know, teaching English wherever we you know, wherever we live. So, yeah, that was incredible. And and getting to go to so many different states, I was trying to count up before we met today, because I think I’ve traveled to 16 different states where I’ve gotten to speak to different teachers around the country. And I just, I so admire teachers. I think that’s I mean, we do so much like and there’s always so much that you have to handle every day. And I’m just like, you know? I hope I inspire other teachers, but they inspire me too. So I love getting to travel and speak and hear the different amazing things they’re doing in their classrooms.

Donell Pons 6:17
It’s a really good point, the incredible group of educators too, that we get to be a part of now, Lindsay, lest we forget, because in the midst of all of this is we’re going to introduce and talk about the new book. You also, in between, found time to do a resource book. Tell us a little bit about the resource book that goes with seven mighty moves.

Lindsay Kemeny 6:33
Yes, okay, I have it here. Seven mighty moves, reading resources. It’s spiral bound. It’s over 300 pages. It was so fun putting this together because I just tried to think of resources and tools that I would actually use in my classroom, that I need. And so it’s organized move, my move, so the people who have my first book, seven mighty moves. It’s organized by those seven moves. And I have the resource, but I think, like the best part is not the resource itself, but like the directions for how to use the resource. So it will, and it will, like walk teachers through step by step. This is how you can use this. And then it gives differentiation tips. So like, if it’s if this is a little hard for students, here’s what you can do. If it’s too easy, here’s what you can do. And so I was kind of thinking like, okay, let’s say, like, I’m your literacy coach. Let me, like, walk you through how to use this resource or what to do. And it’s just, you know, it’s all kinds of different things. Like, I remember personally being frustrated when I had students who struggled with phonemic awareness, and then I got, like, an intervention program for phonemic awareness, but when I got that, it didn’t attend to the types of sounds and the words. So I’m like, Okay, I have a student who is struggling blending and segmenting, but and here, so I’m going to use this intervention lesson, but it’s starting with words with stop sounds like cat and dog. Those are harder for them to blend than words with continuous sounds. So like, that’s kind of where I started getting the idea. Because I’m like, Okay, well, I want a list of words that’s organized by the by the sounds and how many phonemes are in them. And like, I had just made that myself already, and was using it. And so it’s that kind of thing. It’s just things that I need to use in my classroom, because I am still in the classroom and and, yeah, like I said, it’s just, I think the the great, unique part about it is the directions for how to use them. So I hope it’s helpful for people.

Speaker 1 8:46
I love that it’s all in one place, too. You mentioned this as teachers, we do create our own stuff, but I have to have a really unique filing system on my computer. And where is it? And it’s spiral bound, which was also a teacher decision that’s thinking like a teacher for sure that the teacher that you are. So I really appreciated that, and I think you’re just helping to amplify any use of evidence based instruction as well, like you’re instructing and you’re amplifying. So even for teachers who already have a solid footing in evidence based instruction, these resources are helpful for everyone.

Lindsay Kemeny 9:29
Yeah, and it was, you know, I asked Scholastic, I was like, at the beginning, can can we make this spiral bound? And at first we weren’t sure, because that pushes the price up. And I’m just just like you’re saying, Stacy, I’m like, I know I have tried to make copies when there’s not a spiral about binding, and it’s such a pain. So that was important to me. And the book was originally going to be a lot smaller. I mean, we were talking like maybe 50 to 100 pages, you know, but I just kept having more and more ideas for it. And. Um, and then at one point, my editor was like, so do you think you could get this over 300 pages? And I was like, oh, yeah, definitely, you know. And then it ended up we even had to cut things out, and some things we just put, you know, we put a few extra pages and things in the downloadables, like online, because there wasn’t room in the book. So

Donell Pons 10:19
smart move. I loved having the resources attached to the seven mighty moves, like you say, for individuals to just be able to follow through. It’s so well thought out. And that leads us to, congratulations. There’s another book which is so fantastic, and I’m going to give the title here because I love it. Rock your literacy block. That’s very catchy. Mighty moves to organize your day and optimize your literacy block. I love it. It’s a great title, and what a great follow up. So I love Lindsay, too. In this one, you gave us a little bit of your personal history in seven mighty moves, just a little bit about how why reading is personal for you. But this time, you expanded on that story a bit that caught my eye right off the bat, just because I’m also aware of your son, and I think he’s amazing, so I loved hearing a little bit more and from your own voice. So tell us a little bit about how that begins and also why this second book. Yeah,

Lindsay Kemeny 11:11
so I feel like I always need to give credit to my son, because it’s really because of him that I’m like, I’m here writing books, because that’s just what started my whole journey when he was diagnosed with dyslexia and depression. It just, you know, it was like this chain reaction, and I just had to completely pivot and change what I was doing my classroom to do, you know, more effective ways. And it’s also why I’m so, just so, like, I want to say, like, obsessed. I don’t know why I’m so passionate about this, because I think teaching kids to read and write is just the greatest thing we can do for them. It changes their lives. And so I actually feel like I go a little more into a story in seven mighty moves. But that’s also because I, like, I have a conclusion in that book, and I share a little bit more about him in the conclusion and but in this book, when I was writing the introduction, I’m like, I have to start there. Like, this is, you know, I’ve got to give him kind of a shout out. And I am so grateful. It’s also scary, because sometimes I wonder, like, what wonder if he didn’t have dyslexia? Where would I be today. What kind of teacher would I? Would I be? Would I have come to this information on my own? I don’t know. I hope so. But yeah, this book rock your literacy block was really fun to write, and there’s a couple things that kind of gave me the idea to write it. The first one is my principal. I was teaching second grade, and my principal moved me to first grade. And I just remember when she came in my room and it was like, you know, I don’t know, April or May, and told me that next year I need you to go to first grade. And she was all, like, worried and and rightly so, because I was worried, I was like, Oh my gosh, I’ve never taught first grade. You know what? I don’t even know what I’m gonna do. What you know? What will my day look like? And so the first thing I did was I reached out to just these amazing educators in my school district that I knew taught first grade, and there was about three or four, and, you know, I reached out and said, Hey, can I come visit you? And can you walk me through your literacy block? So I went to these different teachers. I, you know, took a few different days to do that after school, and I was amazed at how helpful that was. I was just like, I couldn’t believe I had never done that before. And now I’m like, Oh my gosh, I want to do this regularly, because it was so interesting to hear them as they just described their day and how they organize it, and what they do and how much time they spend, you know, on on each part, and even if I like and I didn’t like copy anyone exactly, I wasn’t like, Okay, this is the thing, and this is exactly what I’m going to do. But it really helped me as I figured out how I was going to do organize my block and how I was going to schedule the day for first grade. So taking that same idea for this book, I wanted to walk teachers through my literacy block, and I’m going to explain exactly what I do through the course of a day, how much time I spend on each part, how that changes throughout the week or throughout the year. Like let’s get to the nitty gritty. And it’s not in the hopes that everyone is exactly like me, like and I say that several times in the book, I’m like here, your schedule doesn’t need to look exactly like mine, you know, but I hope it will inspire you, and you’ll be inspired to think of your own good ideas we always have to be reflected. Acting on the data and our students, and so that’s going to come into play. So anyway, that’s, that’s kind of the idea. That’s the idea behind the book. And I forgot to say there was, there’s one other thing that helped me get this idea, and that was right after seven mighty moves came out, and I was giving one of my first webinars, and I was talking about phonics, and I remember I was saying, well, it’s not just about like the different steps in the phonics lesson, but you also need to be thinking about your transition between steps and how and your routines and how you’re getting from one place to the other. And then someone in the group was like, You should write a book about that. I was like, Oh, that’s interesting. And so that’s also what I was trying to bring in to this book. Here’s the routines I use. Here’s how we get from one place to the other. Think about those transitions, you know, because we’ve got to make the most of every minute,

Speaker 1 16:01
which is a real service. Lindsay, so thank you, because as teachers in the classroom, we are focused on our students first and foremost. And whatever we’re creating, or whether it be a schedule or, you know, instructional materials, we’re focusing on our students. You had the added. I don’t know, responsibility you took it on to be like, how is this going to scale to other teachers who are not in your classroom with your students, and how can it inspire them to do the best they can do for their students? So thank you, because that’s not something as teachers that I think we think about right? We don’t time to think about that, but then also, and you took the time. So thank you. And visiting other teachers, I think, as a literacy coach, I saw the power in that so much, but you’ve also provided us in seven mighty moves as well, like video snippets of your instruction, so it’s like we’re visiting your classroom. And so yeah, thank you for taking the time to do all of that in the service of your students, but then being able to communicate it to teachers at large. And also, you mentioned this, but this question comes up a lot, because you know your schedule, what your school requires for a literacy block, but you also make mention in the beginning of the book about time, like, how much time is allotted for a literacy block? Can you talk about that for a second?

Lindsay Kemeny 17:34
Yeah. I was like, Okay, I’m gonna be bold here, but I come right out and say, you know, and, and, you know, I should preface this, I am focusing on grades, Kate to two in this book, because those are the grades that I have taught and planned a literacy block for. I’ve done intervention the other grades. And so I’m sure upper grades, there’s going to be some things that are helpful, but you’d have a lot more at adapting to, do, you know, with the schedule, so it’s, it’s geared Kate, too, and, and I’ll say, like I say in the book, I don’t think you’re going to see the results you want if you are at 90 have a 90 minute literacy block, I think you need at least two hours. And then, when I was looking into it, because, you know, when you look into it, it’s like a mixture of research and opinion. And you’re like, how much time do you need? And then I saw that, you know, Tim Shanahan had also mentioned, he said it, he thinks it should be anywhere between 120 180 minutes. And I was like, Okay, I’m like, I’m aligned with that. And so I had put that in my book. And then when Dr Louisa Moats, she wrote the full word, so she read my book, and then wrote the forward. And in her forward, she calls that out, and she brings up some like a study that she and Barbara Foreman did, which I hadn’t I wasn’t aware of. So I’m so glad she brought it out and she said they found that in the those foundational grades, you need at least two hours until that reading foundation is in place. And so I was like, Okay, great. That goes right along with what I was saying and what I was doing.

Speaker 1 19:22
And I love that you covered literacy, because I think one reason our blocks need to be larger is because of writing too, and frequently that’s the thing that gets left out.

Narrator 19:34
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Donell Pons 20:30
Yeah. So as you guys are talking, I’m thinking to myself, if our listeners are listening and thinking, okay, so I’m hearing a little bit about the new book Lindsay, put into context for our folks who are listening, if they’re a follower of seven mighty moves, and they loved seven mighty moves. How is this different? The same compliments kind of help our readers see how this comes in place of their community of seven mighty moves. Yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny 20:51
And for anyone that isn’t familiar, seven mighty moves, the seven moves represent these changes I made in my classroom after learning about evidence based literacy instruction. So, and that’s why I was saying, you know, I started with my son and and that caused me to take a deep dive into what I was doing and my teaching and make those changes. So seven mighty moves is organized by those seven changes rock your literacy block now is literally just going to walk you through my block. So the order of the book goes through like the order of a day for me, well, with the literacy block and in each so each I break down each section of my day into a chapter, and at the beginning of that chapter, I share the overarching moves that are in that part of in that time of day, you know? So it’s like, Okay, here’s my phonics lesson. So there’s going to be a chapter on phonics. Here are the the main moves to tie it with seven mighty moves that you’ll see. Or, okay, here’s my writing lesson. Here are the main, the dominant moves in this part of my day. So and, you know, and I talk like chapter one, I talk about how my schedule changes just slightly every year, right? And as teachers, we know that we get, you know, assigned when our you know, our class specials are like, PE and all that, WHEN’S OUR recess, it’s like, so stressful, I think August, when you keep getting these changes in your schedule and you’re trying to figure out how you’re going to do it so and so I talk a little bit about that in chapter one, but then I just kind of go with my, you know, my, maybe my favorite order of, of what I use, and just kind of walk teachers through The block and describe for each lesson, I tell you my routines. I tell you like some behind the scenes, things I’m thinking about, and because there’s a lot we have to think about as teachers. So I feel like this book, rockular Sea block is really how I bring all those mighty moves together.

Donell Pons 23:03
Yeah, it’s an apt description. You did a fantastic job with that. You know what’s interesting, too. Lindsay, I began to think, in my mind, you’ve kind of opened the lid. Also for folks, I could see parents who are like, that’s a mystery to me, what my child is learning during that literacy block. To me, I don’t think I’ve seen something quite like this that is as approachable as this. Obviously fantastic resource for teachers, yes. But I was also thinking, how often, as a parent who isn’t familiar with that space, thinking, What is my child doing over there during literacy? I don’t really know, yeah, kind of what I thought of too. Yeah, I

Lindsay Kemeny 23:38
thought of that too. And also just, you know, maybe people who have been out of the classroom for a while, or who are consultants or, you know, or principals, I think it’s, yeah, I don’t know. I would think it’s interesting to be like, look at all the things we are doing and thinking about in the course of a day, right? Uh huh,

Donell Pons 23:57
yeah, I thought that was so valuable, because I don’t think I’ve seen a resource quite like this that says approachable, as I say yes, clearly for teachers. But then I was also thinking, Boy, this could also be very useful to other folks who need some insight into what goes on in a literacy block, right? And Stacy, I’m thinking of your pre service teachers being able to see that like it is, right? Yeah, especially

Speaker 1 24:19
when they get further along in their education, where they’re learning about how to prepare and teach in those situations and student teaching, they’re going to see a lot, but it’ll it will be a good resource for them to compare to what they see. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely so. And I feel like too it’s very current, because I as a first grade teacher, you’re always looking for those things, and as a literacy coach, how can I share? But I haven’t seen anything recently that is that aligned and that descriptive, so it’s very current and and I think it will stand the test of time, because you. Based all on the foundation of evidence based practices and your own experience applying those.

Donell Pons 25:08
Yeah. So Lindsay, I know. I mean, we’re all anxious, and I don’t want to give away too much, because I’m thinking, yes, yes, everybody, just go out and buy it when it’s available, you’ll love it. But what are some key themes or ideas and maybe some thoughts that were very important to you, that you hope are conveyed, that you want people to really pay attention to as they are going through the book.

Lindsay Kemeny 25:29
Yeah, so I definitely want people to be thinking about reflecting on their own student data, right? I mean, that is just key, and that’s like I was saying, you know, yours might not look exactly like mine, and even mine year to year. Sometimes I’m like, Oh, I don’t need to spend this much time in my small groups, or, oh my gosh, I need to. And you know, I describe this in the small group chapter where I’m like, Oh my gosh, I need to bring in some other helpers, and I’ve really got to wrap this up to make sure my students are on track. So I think that is one of the key things, is to be using your data, you know, your students make your literacy block yours, and use my book to kind of give you, maybe some ideas of how to do that. So I think that’s huge. Another thing that I want teachers to focus on is progress and not perfection. And so I say that in the in the book, and, you know, I think like, there’s no one perfect way to structure your block or to structure or a lesson or to teach a lesson. So that’s really why, like, I want you to focus on progress and getting a little better. And I’m not perfect. And every year I feel like, every year I get better. I I have a goal. I change something, I add something. I mean, things change a little bit every year, and I just get a little bit better every year. And I want so I don’t want teachers to be hard on themselves and and then at the end of each chapter, I share, because thinking about this progression and where we’re not perfect, but sometimes we’re good, sometimes we’re better, and sometimes we’re best. And so at the end of each chapter, kind of like how in seven mighty moves I did a stop, a keep, a stop and a start. In this book, I do a good, a better and a best. And I’m going to come right out and tell you guys that there’s one, there’s one chapter where I admit I’m gonna I’m somewhere in between good and better this part time of day, and I’m okay with that for right now, because, you know what, we can’t, you know, sometimes we can’t be perfect. We can’t be our best all the time. We’re working towards it, right? So anyway, I think that’s fun to have that good, better, best, and hopefully get get teachers thinking about, you know, how you could, how where you are in your learning journey, and just know that we’re working, you know, incremental little baby steps, getting a little better, a little better,

Unknown Speaker 28:11
a little better. Yeah,

Donell Pons 28:13
definitely felt like a companionship to me. As I was reading, I felt like, this is like a companion for you, right? Like when a teacher says, I’ve gotten a lot of really good information. I’ve been to a good conference, I did some good training. Some good training, but when I’m in my classroom, I feel like I’m back to myself, by myself. This felt like, well, this is a little bit of that companionship you’re looking for, right? That can be alongside you. You and Stacy had a really interesting conversation about the data bit before we even started our podcast here. And so I do want to address that again, because you’re so right, this data thing is very important, and Stacy, you recognized that too. When you read Lindsay’s book, you talked a little bit about the

Speaker 1 28:48
data section, the date, yeah, how you made sure that you’re saying we’re making these decisions based on our student data, which will change from year to year and even month to month, because students are their own unique selves, and sometimes you’ll have a whole classroom full of students that might need a lot more support. So I was thinking I was sharing with you, Lindsay, I had to tighten down my centers time specifically in certain ways, and in some cases, that was because I needed more center time where my teacher led center or behavior issues, right? Like they weren’t really ready to be as flexible as some other classrooms. But how do you keep and you have a whole section on that, on assessment and why it’s important, but talk about how you address that in that section, because that is the thread that runs through it. All right,

Lindsay Kemeny 29:45
yeah, you mean specifically in the small group

Speaker 1 29:48
chapter. I think throughout everything that you do, all the whole thing, you mentioned that data is the thing driving some of these decisions. And I know you. Going to say this, but you do say, do such a good job in the book of saying we we need to use data, there’s no point in getting results and not doing anything with them, right?

Lindsay Kemeny 30:13
Yeah. I mean, assessment drives it, and it’s like, and that’s you’re right, Stacy, and that’s what I say. I’m like, there’s no point to give the assessment if you’re not doing anything with the data. But I guess I need to take a step back and say, first, we need a good assessment, right? And so I’m really grateful that, you know, we have one in my school district and in my whole state uses it. And yeah, that is so helpful, because that tells me, okay, like, I can look at the middle of the year, how are my students doing? Oh, almost everyone is at least typical progress, and above then I’m like, I’m doing great. My what I’m doing for the whole class is fine. Maybe I have one or two without our below progress. Okay, well, I’ve got to do something different for those two to get them up. They might need an extra dose, more intense, something, an intervention. And then on the flip side, too, when you have several that aren’t making progress, or maybe, you know, a teacher’s looking at their data, and they have a lot that are below typical progress, then you’re like, okay, maybe I, you know, it’s, it’s difficult to take a hard look at what you’re doing, but you try to take yourself out of the equation, like, don’t take it personally and say, What can I do? Do I need to structure my block a little differently? Do I need, you know, what’s the program I’m using? Do students have enough practice? There’s so many things to look at there, and then specifically in the small group chapter I do I share, you know, hey, my assessments drive my groupings here. And so I go into detail about, you know, how I organize my students in small group, and what I do with them when they’re with me, as well as what the other students are doing. And then I share several different variations that you could put that all together. And I was joking with you guys before we came on, because I’m like, I hope this chapter doesn’t give anyone a headache, because there’s, like, a lot of different ways you could do this. And I’m like, Okay, here’s version one, here’s version two, here’s version three. What? And there’s been times when, you know, it really depends, like, you know, like, okay, version one is fine for us the whole year, or by the middle of the year, I’m like, we gotta change this and go to version three, because I’ve got to up, you know, what my students are getting, or whatever it is, and I wanted to put all the options out there, and hopefully it’s not too much, but

Speaker 1 32:49
I love that chapter, and we were talking about this before as well. My recommendation, for those of you who are reading it, read each option and then marinate on it for a few days, and then read the next one, and then think about it. I also love Lindsay, and you’ve spent a theme throughout this conversation too, that you tell teachers, make it your own. You have to do what works for you. Unfortunately, Lindsay’s not in every classroom, so she’s just in hers, so you have to make what works for you. And as you’re talking Lindsay, I also you mentioned this in the book, and I think it’s important that you’re addressing tier one instruction. Yeah, so even when you’re talking about assessment, I love how you break it down within the MTSS model, and you outline, there’s a screener, and then you have a diagnostic and then progress monitoring, but your book, The focus of this instruction, is tier one, and you do differentiate really well in tier one, and I know that’s a part of why your results are so fantastic, in addition to everything else we’re sharing. So I think that’s important to mention, and is there a reason that you chose that specifically, that you didn’t really go into tier two or tier three?

Lindsay Kemeny 34:09
Well, the book has to be a certain amount of pages, so it’s just that you can’t fit in everything, really. And so, yeah, definitely, just the focus is on that tier one. And I kind of, I kind of, I guess I put a little bit in there about, you know, how you could, you know, some students are going to need more intervention, right? And, but, yeah, the focus is on tier one. That’s just like all we have the space

Speaker 1 34:38
for. Well, I love it. Yeah, I do too. It makes sense, because you need systemic support. Once you start talking more particularly about tier two and three, tiers two and three, yeah, and

Donell Pons 34:52
I don’t think we say enough about how do we really still have solid tier one instruction? Do we. And we’re looking at data to school, because I that’s still a big thing a lot of places, is you can tell by data that tier one still needs a lot of support and help. So I loved the way you broke that down. I thought, yeah, right,

Lindsay Kemeny 35:12
because sometimes we jump into that too soon, right? Like, all these students need intervention when it’s like, wait, maybe we’ve got to strengthen tier one first?

Donell Pons 35:21
Yeah, I thought you did a great job of that. And so I’m going to ask this question. I think we’ve talked a lot around it, but sometimes it’s different from what you think it might be. What ultimately, do you hope is the takeaway from both of your books, because you’ve got and you say, they speak to each other, and ultimately, what’s the takeaway?

Lindsay Kemeny 35:41
Yeah, I hope it gives teachers some more confidence into how to teach reading and writing. You know, I don’t go, I go a little bit into writing in seven mighty moves in rock your literacy block, I go a lot more into writing because I have the chapter on writing I’m really excited about. So in both areas, reading, writing, I hope, I hope teachers are more confident, like I said, have more knowledge, more clarity, because I certainly didn’t at the beginning, before I did this kind of deep dive, and and, and ultimately, more students who are proficient readers and writers, right? That’s, that’s what I want. So this book was so fun to write because, you know, it was easier to write the seven mighty moves. I was

Donell Pons 36:33
gonna ask, Was it easier? Yeah, it

Lindsay Kemeny 36:35
was easier because I just was describing what I do every day, you know. So I’m like, let me just break this down. Whereas seven Maya moves, I’m very much like, Okay, let me take the research, let me, let me explain what that means and and the change I made. And this one, I’m just like, oh, this is what I did today. Let me just break it down. And I appreciated the opportunity to really think hard about, like, what I do, because that just makes you better at when you’re doing it to be like, Okay, what was I thinking about? Because you do so many things automatically that you know. So it was really fun to write. It really was.

Speaker 1 37:15
It’s almost like you’ve taken readers on a journey with you, like seven mighty moves, I feel like when I think about it, the big message there was, we can align our instruction with what evidence says works, and it will take some adjusting. And here are some seven things that you can start with. Then you did your great resource book that I feel like supports both of these books that we’re talking about, and now this book is like, let’s really rock this block. Now that we’ve made some of these adjustments, let’s go in deeper. And so you’re really just enhancing everybody who’s applying the things that you’re doing. You’re really helping them accelerate their instruction and learning. Oh,

Donell Pons 38:00
thank you. Yeah, it’s great. This has been such a fun conversation. Lindsay, is there anything that we didn’t touch on that you feel was left unsaid or you wanted to say?

Lindsay Kemeny 38:12
Oh, no, I don’t think so. I think we got Oh, we didn’t. Well, I kind of briefly mentioned Dr Louisa Moats writing the phone.

Donell Pons 38:21
Let’s talk about that again. Yeah, that was, I

Lindsay Kemeny 38:25
mean, when I asked her originally, I just assumed she was gonna say no. Like, yeah, she’s just busy. I had, like, a short list and, and so that was just like, I’m still kind of like, oh my gosh, pinch me. I can’t believe that. And she hadn’t, you know, she first said she would consider it, and she had heard seven mighty moves, but hadn’t read it yet. And so I had, I sent her seven mighty moves and and she loved it. So that was amazing to get an email from her telling telling me that it was excellent, and that she really appreciates being asked to write rock your literacy blog, the full word, and that she would love to do that, you know. And and then I but I still wasn’t like, I still didn’t take that as a yes, because I’m like, she still has to read it. And so then I emailed her, you know, the draft of rock your literacy block for for her to look at. And I was just like, on pins and needles waiting for her to read that. And I was so scared that maybe, maybe she’s gonna read something and she doesn’t agree with it, and then she’s gonna be like, I’m sorry I can’t write the full word or something. But it didn’t happen. She read it and she liked it, and she wrote the most amazing full word. And just like such an honor, she’s coming actually to my classroom this week to come visit. And so I’m so I just thought

Speaker 1 39:51
that that is amazing. And I think she did use the word in her intro, in her forward to I think. She used the word relatable, I think. But I was gonna comment, this whole book does a really good job of being relatable, even though you really you’re applying research, right? Which is often seen seem to be dense. But can we just talk about the title? Is called Rock your literacy block. And I hope it’s okay if I read the chapter titles. So the introduction is setting the stage. Chapter one is creating a litter literacy block that truly rocks. And then that’s where you now. You we start going into each area. So chapter two is curtain up when the students arrive, you even start there, like, what are we going to do? Like you’re saying, you’re describing your day. And then chapter three is called sound check, and that’s about phonics. And then chapter four is the opening act, which is close reading. And then chapter five is Showtime, which is writing. And when I got to that chapter, I think, is when I really started realizing those titles, because writing is the Showtime, yeah, that’s where everything comes together. And then chapter six is turning up the volume with small groups and centers, which is why we do that, right? We really amplify their instruction. And then chapter seven is called encore, and that’s the read aloud. And then the conclusion is actually question ready to rock. So I loved that. I don’t know if you thought of that or

Lindsay Kemeny 41:31
coming up with those. Yeah, it was so fun.

Donell Pons 41:34
Now this Lindsay folks have to know you’re a performer too, right? Performing is in Lindsay’s blood.

Unknown Speaker 41:43
I forgot that, but

Lindsay Kemeny 41:44
yeah, in my past, I was a dancer. Yeah,

Donell Pons 41:47
Lindsay gets the stage. She understands.

Lindsay Kemeny 41:52
Yeah, it was so fun. So like, my editor and I worked on those together, and it was so fun because I was thinking, like, okay, sound check, yes, that’s exactly what phonics is. That’s like, your little warm up, getting ready, opening act is reading, Showtime is writing, yeah, so, thanks for calling it out. Stacy. Those were really fun. And, you know, and I was debating, I’m like, is this gonna be too cheesy? You know? Like, I think it’s fun. So, and it was fun that, you know, Dr moats, and I think it was Dr Antonio Fierro both kind of played into the theme in their like, in their endorsements,

Speaker 1 42:31
yeah, very cool. And this might be the first ever literacy book that would inspire a soundtrack. Maybe that’s your next gig. Lindsay, yeah, make songs anyway, I thought it was a great example of being thematic while teaching some really good content. So thank you. Liked it.

Donell Pons 42:57
Yes, yep, great. Thank you. Lindsay,

Lindsay Kemeny 43:00
yeah, the book comes out. I guess I should say that the book comes out. June, 17. June 17. 2025, it should be released. So,

Donell Pons 43:10
yeah, right, and available to purchase, yep,

Lindsay Kemeny 43:14
Scholastic on Amazon. You know, anywhere books are sold. So

Speaker 1 43:17
okay, so great, and we’re recommending it, as are many others, but we’re we’ve already recommended throughout this podcast, for classroom teachers, literacy coaches, administrators, parents, pre service teachers. I

Donell Pons 43:34
don’t know what’s happening in the literacy luck. Who

Speaker 1 43:37
have we left out? I think this is for everyone, like it’ll be so great.

Lindsay Kemeny 43:42
What about researchers that just want to get a pulse on the classroom? Maybe

Speaker 1 43:47
there you go. That would be awesome, too. All of the above, right? And I don’t think we left anybody out. So everybody gets a book and buy it for your friends, and there you go. We get no commission off it, but we feel that strongly about it that we’re recommending it. So thank you, Lindsay. We are so proud of you and we are so honored that you’re a co host every episode. We get your perspective, but I love that it is in this form for everyone as well. So thank you for letting us dedicate a whole episode to talking about you and your books. Oh, thank you guys. It was so fun. I appreciate it. Yeah, and thank you to those of you who listen to literacy talks. We hope that you’ll join us on future episodes of literacy talks.

Narrator 44:38
Thanks for joining us today. Literacy talks comes to you from Reading Horizons, where literacy momentum begins. Visit readinghorizons.com/literacytalks to access episodes and resources to support your journey in the science of reading.