From Cookies to Keynotes: Our Big Sky Conference Recap

Episode Notes

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Narrator 0:03
Welcome to literacy talks, the podcast for literacy leaders and champions everywhere, brought to you by Reading Horizons. Literacy talks is the place to discover new ideas, trends, insights and practical strategies for helping all learners reach reading proficiency. Our hosts are Stacy Hurst, a professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor for Reading Horizons. Donell Pons, a recognized expert and advocate in literacy, dyslexia and special education, and Lindsay Kemeny, an elementary classroom teacher, author and speaker. Now let’s talk literacy.

Stacy Hurst 0:46
Welcome to this episode of literacy talks. This is our recap of the Big Sky literacy Summit, and we are going to turn the time right over to Lindsay Kemeny to lead our discussion.

Lindsay Kemeny 1:01
Okay, so, first things first. This is for Donell. I thought the first thing we could talk about with Big Sky is the cookie, Donell. And if you if you guys listened to our episode a year ago with Big Sky, we also mentioned the cookie, which, you know, Donell, any thoughts on that first?

Donell Pons 1:26
Okay, other than how embarrassing for me. Do you

Lindsay Kemeny 1:32
remember the name of the company?

Donell Pons 1:36
Okay, I should, because I went all over Bozeman trying to find this place,

Stacy Hurst 1:41
it rhymes, doesn’t it? I want to say it’s like Ellie’s bellies. That’s it. I was close,

Lindsay Kemeny 1:52
yeah, okay, and so I just thought it was funny. So we were sitting in a session, and I get a text from Andrea set Meyer, you guys might know who she is, from the reading league. And she was like, tell Donell to come up to the reading league desk. You know, I have something for her. And Donell sitting right next to me. So I’m like, Andrea just texted me, like, what is this? And Donell was like, I bet it’s a cookie. She runs up, to the desk, and

Stacy Hurst 2:25
it was a cookie. Andrea had literally commandeered the last cookie, the very last cookie, let’s hear this story called The last cookie. Saved it for Donell. That was so nice of

Lindsay Kemeny 2:38
her well, and Donell is so nice because she shared it with me because we were in the same session, so she went up and came back down and broke it in half. And we had like. We were like, This is the best cookie.

Stacy Hurst 2:48
Yeah, that’s not nothing for Donell to share it,

Lindsay Kemeny 2:52
right? And Donell, you scored one more time during the conference. Do you want to share that?

Donell Pons 2:58
Did I have another cookie?

Lindsay Kemeny 3:02
We were at dinner. Do you remember? And we were talking about the cookie that came in the bag, and someone next to us, he’s like, there’s a cookie in the bag, and our chins drop. You don’t know that there is, like, the best cookie. And he was like, well, I’ll give it to you, because I don’t want my cookie. So he gave Donell another one.

Stacy Hurst 3:28
So I think the takeaway here is, if you go next year to Big Sky and for whatever reason, you’re not eating your cookie, Donell, look for Donell. Give it to Donell. Also part of the reason Andrea knew about donnells propensity for these cookies is because Donell went into a very entertaining story about how she was looking to buy them in Bozeman. So Elle’s bells, I think you could make a lot of money if you just open the doors

Lindsay Kemeny 4:01
almond extract. I tell you,

Unknown Speaker 4:03
it’s so good,

Lindsay Kemeny 4:07
all right. But seriously, this we love this conference. This conference is interesting because I feel like it’s really different. There’s something different about this conference than other conferences. And one thing is that it’s smaller. I mean, we just have 500 attendees, which is still, you know, a big crowd, but compared to some of the other bigger ones we go to, it’s much smaller. You run into the people, you know, again and again, several times. And I think, you know, Dr Nell Thompson, she does an amazing job running this, and I just think she is such an inspirational person. She’s so passionate about literacy. She just radiates this kind of love and joy and passion. She’s an SLP, so that is neat that she kind. Of brings that lens with her. And I just think she has such a beautiful spirit, and she just really emulates that, like you can really see that throughout the conference. And I love that the conference has a theme. So every year they do a theme, and this year was language is everything that was the theme. And it’s not just like a theme, and then you don’t refer back to it, but every session, you know, every you know, everything would come back to language and there, you know, I assume Nell is the the one kind of organizing and all these different topics and things, and just making sure that we are always coming back to that central idea, which is pretty special. And I think we’re together a lot more than we’re apart. So where some sessions, you know, other conferences, I think you have lots of breakouts. This one, I feel like we even had less breakouts than last year, maybe, and we’re just all together a lot, where we’re having, you know, speakers who speak to all of us, and then we might break out, but we come right back together. And I also like you guys, tell me if you would agree with this, but I feel like this conference, so it really pushes your thinking. So I don’t think this conference is best for beginners. Maybe I think it’s like a little more advanced. So if you’re feel like you’re already pretty comfortable with what is the science of literacy, right? What is the science of reading? And you’re ready to really have your thinking be kind of pushed and challenged and consider other things like that’s kind of how I take it. What do you guys

Donell Pons 6:47
think? Yeah, I definitely think this conference is perhaps some of the conversations are pretty elevated. And certainly when we come back together, you have some breakout sessions, we come back together. That’s another unique feature of this conference is that we will come back together. It’s like a symposium setting, and we’ll go out, we’ll have breakout sessions, we’ll come back, there’ll be a panel discussion, and it just takes things deeper to another layer. And this is research. It has a research base to it, and oftentimes it’s information that might be unfamiliar to others, and we’re also looking at studies and things and examining exactly why it works, and getting into the nitty gritty. So it’s not just a surface layer of things. And I think all of that you’re right, can be a lot, and the days are packed. We get up early and we’re going until dinner time, you know, and it’s, it’s, it’s full. It’s not just, you know, here and there, and we’re spending time in the hallways, you’re sitting down, and you’re getting information, a lot of really good information. So I do, I think it is a lot, and I think the information is very good, and you’ll be hearing conversations between some of these researchers, and that’s an elevated level too, of information is hearing them, talking to each other, sharing information, all really good. In fact, I went back over my notes today and I’m thinking, oh my goodness, there’s so much here that I had written down. And I felt like I had had, you know, taken it in, and was utilizing a lot of it and thinking about it. And then today, looking at my notes, I thought, wow, there’s still a lot more here. Yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny 8:22
So let’s start with sharing our favorite session. So Stacy, maybe I’ll start with you and you just share, you know, what is one of the sessions that you just really enjoyed or got something out of?

Stacy Hurst 8:37
You know? What I have to say, I really liked them all. I’m sorry that’s a very first grade response that I liked everything. What was your favorite part about your school? Everything, everything. I liked everything. Sessions that stood out to me. I really loved Margaret Goldberg session. It was well designed, but also the the message was very important, that implementation is key. And then also, I did appreciate the the session with Louisa Moats, and that was about teacher knowledge. I just always love hearing from her, and so I thought that was impactful, also important that she kind of came out of retirement. Maybe we shouldn’t say that to the world, but that was the session she declared, how can I retire? Now there’s so many good things going on, so I and then I did love all the grand rounds were great too. I love being together and hearing the same thing I really, actually did. I really liked Julie van dykes passion and her intellect and the things that she shared with us. Also, we got free journals in that one, literal, physical journals that was always good. So, yeah, let’s to stand out to me. I’m curious to hear about what yours are. Ears were,

Lindsay Kemeny 10:06
Donell, what about you? Did you have a favorite session?

Donell Pons 10:09
Yeah, mine. I’m always going to say, and I’ve been talking about her quite a bit as Dr Julie Van Dyke. We’ve mentioned her before, and syntax is the big one there with Dr Julie Van Dyke, and I’ve talked a little bit before about her being associated with and having this online, free online resource called cascade reader, which I use with my older students. And it breaks the text down and has it going down instead of across, and it has indentations based on syntax. And so it does a lot to help your student with comprehension, and I’ve talked about it for quite a quite a while now. I think it’s phenomenal getting to hear her, I think is always it just really elevates my thinking about comprehension in particular, and some of the things that she said this time around, comprehension is not a test score, a gist statement, a main idea, it’s what occurs between the spaces. You just kind of noodle on that for a minute. She’s saying a lot with that. Syntax is everything. Syntax is the glue that holds words together. Syntactic knowledge in the brain is fast. Those are some really great quotes from her session. And if you have an opportunity and you haven’t been able to see her before, please do. And if you haven’t checked out cascade reader, there’s a lot there on the website that would be very informational, too. But I just think what she’s doing in terms of elevating our conversation about comprehension and syntax in particular, and its role in comprehension, is something that I haven’t seen be having been done before. And so for that, she can’t, she stood out for me, even though, like Stacy said, there were so many fabulous presentations. But yeah, for me, she’s always good.

Lindsay Kemeny 11:49
Yeah, she was, she was great. I didn’t attend her breakout session, but she was part of the the Grand Rounds, which you heard. I think Stacy mentioned that, and the Grand Rounds is just basically, kind of think of a keynote, like, we’re just all together, you know, when and but you’re going, boom, boom, boom. There’s a few different speakers, one after the other, and their topics are, you know, kind of aligned. Of course, we know it’s all focused on language for this one. And I agree Donnell in that she, she had said, you know, was focusing on comprehension is a process, and I love it. She said it exists between the words. And I thought that was I liked thinking of that like because sometimes you do think of it, and I’ve heard Nancy Hennessy say this too, because it’s sometimes we think of it as a product, but it’s a process. Comprehension is a process. So my favorite session, I had to just kind of say it was the last day, like the very last day Saturday, which they, I think, had kind of nicknamed, like, that’s your implementation day. For me, that was my favorite day of the conference. And that was, for me, the transformation day, like they have what they call a transformation day, which was the first day of the conference, but for me, it was the last day. Was really transformational. I don’t know. I was just really inspired, and maybe it’s because it was like all those days leading up to this last day. So I was really, like, ready, you know, to really dive better into language and really thinking about oral language in my classroom. But I just, I had this, you know, intentional. I just kind of this renewed resolve to really be more intentional about integrating language and reading and thinking more about how I do that in my classroom. And so a highlight of that last day is what I will nickname the quote, unquote, old Girls Rock panel. And that is because Ann Kaiser, she was on the panel, and she called herself, she’s like old Girls Rock she had said, because on the panel was her. Was Louisa Moats, Maggie snowling And Elsa Cardenas, Hagan. So I thought it was kind of funny that she used that term. I loved. Louisa Moats was talking about teacher knowledge. She said, teachers can’t be innovators without knowledge, so we need that. And like, I just stand by her, where I just think is so important that our teachers have this information. And and Elsa kind of reiterated that, and then she was talking about, well, leaders need to be a part of this. And yes, we need to. Our leaders need to have this information too. But she made the point that leaders change. Like, and you guys, if you’re a teacher, you know, like, how many times do we see a turnover in our principals or a district administration? And she said, teachers have to keep the work moving forward, even when leaders change. And so I thought that was a important point. And I loved when Elsa. Said, our teachers need courage to speak up. And you guys have heard me say that too, where I’m just such a proponent of the teachers really kind of leading and speaking up. So for me, that that was my favorite session. So that day was amazing. And then I wanted to ask, do you guys have a favorite moment, like just a particular moment that happened? It could be in the conference. It could be outside of the conference, you know, like when you were doing something in the evening.

Stacy Hurst 15:36
I have to say, there were many awesome moments. But at the end of Dr Cardenas Hagans talk, I thought that was a really powerful moment. And she said she told us about how when she was younger, and she got severely reprimanded, I’ll say because she was speaking whenever she would speak in Spanish, and she ended her talk by saying, so no other kid has to go through that, I thought that was really powerful.

Lindsay Kemeny 16:12
That was a really In fact, I wrote that down for my most powerful moment was, you know, she said she got paddled at school. Every day she spoke Spanish. In school, she would get paddled, and it was heartbreaking. She you know, there were tears as she shared that with us and and as she said, Do you want us here like how heartbreaking that you know a child might feel that way. And really important, I think, for everyone to hear that, you know, we need to embrace these students and third languages, and it’s such an asset. And we’ve talked about that before on here, where, if you know multiple languages, what a wonderful asset that is for you in your life. So I agree, like Stacy, that was just this really kind of heartbreaking moment. It was really

Stacy Hurst 17:07
powerful. I thought the lead up to it was great too. Both she and Antonio Fierro spoke about their heritage and shared very like pictures of them when they were younger, and a lot about their culture in their homes. And I felt like that whole session really helped me to remember how important it is to know the whole child and and including their language right, which is such an important part of who we are. So I it was really powerful. But if I had to choose a moment, it would be that moment that she ended her talk the way she did, yeah,

Lindsay Kemeny 17:47
okay, Donell, how about you?

Donell Pons 17:50
Yeah, for me, I think that we’ve all touched on it, and it’s probably going to be a part of that the moment. Certainly Elsa speaking like she did that was, I mean, if you didn’t leave feeling changed, then I don’t know who you are, and you certainly aren’t an educator that I know that changed you, because you realize just how important a good educator is in the life of a student, and you can’t not see that again, and you realize that these are people, despite all their accomplishments, it makes a huge difference how you are treated. When you are a student in a classroom, it’s a really vulnerable place to be. And we realized too from the first day of having Dr Bruce Perry talk about trauma and talking about the ways in which trauma can impact how we learn. And of course, it was very in depth, and I appreciated some of what he said. It was a little bit hard to follow sometimes because he he didn’t really have a through line, and so it seemed to jump around a bit. But if you were there to hang in for some of those pieces, they were very important. And then Elsa Cardenas Hagan, obviously very powerful. And Dr Tim Odegard also sharing his personal story of dyslexia. I sat there at times thinking, when will things really be different? When will things really be different? How long have I been here? How many of these conferences have I attended and I still walk into classrooms where things are not different, what will it take? That’s what crossed my mind, and that was those that was my moment. Is thinking. I had moments like that throughout this conference, which was phenomenal with phenomenal people who have dedicated their entire lives to teaching, reading correctly, appropriately, and meeting the needs of students, because you’re doing that, and asking myself, when will it be different for all students? When will this be the norm?

Lindsay Kemeny 19:53
I wish it were yesterday, but it’s

Unknown Speaker 19:56
yeah, it’s been a long time. When will it

Lindsay Kemeny 19:59
and what? Can we do to get that so for me, my favorite moment Stacy touched on this earlier was when Dr Louisa Moats said it’s too early for me to retire. And she said there’s so much work that needs to be done. And this was, you know, I mentioned earlier, there was that panel she was on the last day with everyone. But there was also a breakout session that she was on along with like five others and so, and that’s when she had said, you know, I’ve learned it’s too early for me to retire. And she, I thought it was interesting. She She said that there’s so many silly debates going on right now. And she specifically mentioned, you know, the debates we have on syllables, the debates we have on sound walls. And she said that these debates are superficial. And she said what we should really be asking is, what does it take a teacher to understand the phonological system? And I thought that was interesting. But of everything she said, my favorite thing was that she said it’s too early for me to retire, because I thought, yes, we need your voice. And I love I just love hearing her. Every time she speaks, I’m like, What is she going to say? And I wish, I wish we had more time with her, like I wanted her to just have a session on her own and just talk for a whole hour, because I love listening to her.

Stacy Hurst 21:30
I wrote down probably a lot of what she said, But you already mentioned one thing, Lindsay, and I wrote it down like this. Teachers with knowledge know how to innovate in the moment, and I see the need for that all the time, even at the pre service level, right. And then also, again, her focus has been on many things, but teacher knowledge has been really key for her, and she said, we need to rely on teacher knowledge when knowledge outpaces curriculum.

Lindsay Kemeny 21:59
Yes, there’s no perfect program or curriculum out there, right? And, and, and, yes, we’re usually kind of a little more on the forefront, like, Okay, I know now we know this, and even though my program says to do this, I need to know when to go off that script a little bit, right? And the program doesn’t tell me what to do if you know something goes wrong, the kid isn’t the child isn’t getting the information, or didn’t learn it, or I need to do something different. So yeah, teacher knowledge is huge, and I love that you brought that up.

Narrator 22:32
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Lindsay Kemeny 23:10
Okay, was there anything that you heard at the conference that really pushed your thinking that you’d like to share?

Donell Pons 23:17
You know, you guys are going to be surprised by this, because we did talk about how uneven that transformation day with Dr Perry, was it just it kind of was he seemed to not quite know it, get catches, get his feet underneath him and know exactly what he was doing. It seemed that way anyway. And so it was a little disjointed. It was a little hard to follow. But I have to say, I have been really thinking about some of the things he said, and one of the quotes I had from him is just how much dysregulation can occur with students for various reasons, not just if they’ve had a traumatic experience. And it might not be a typical traumatic experience that you’re thinking of. It can even be things like a hard adjustment with moving, an unexpected move, or something changes within a family, and you’re thinking about how many of these things occur all the time for our students, and they’re then in the classroom, and it impacts their learning. And no one ever talks about that. No one ever acknowledges the fact that I might be having a really difficult time right now, and maybe my third grade year is going to be hard because of this reason. And we don’t ever really acknowledge that. And anyway, I just thought that was really powerful. It was something I wasn’t expecting to take away, I guess, in a way, but it has. It’s got me thinking about my own students and reevaluating perhaps some of the expectations I have.

Lindsay Kemeny 24:36
Great, okay, Stacy, what about you anything that pushed your thinking?

Stacy Hurst 24:40
Yes, actually, it was during Dr Charles Hulmes, he was introducing his reading as language model, the real model, which I had the privilege of co-presenting with him before. I wouldn’t say co-presenting, facilitating his presentation before, so I had learned of it, but in the. This, this particular moment, he said, after introducing the model to us, all models are wrong, but some models are useful. And that really challenged my thinking, because I rely a lot on some models, or I have really embraced some and so it just made me think about the intent of the models, the development of a model, and the fact that he created a model, and then he said, all models are wrong. So that really pushed my thinking, because I kind of just take him as gospel, in a sense, yeah,

Donell Pons 25:36
that was really good, Stacy. I’d forgotten about that because he very clearly and systematically took you through what’s good about the model, and then where the shortcomings of a model can be. And we don’t really ever do that. We don’t acknowledge that, do we? It was really good.

Stacy Hurst 25:51
It also inspired me to know the difference too, between like Scarborough’s reading rope that we all refer to so much, is very useful, in my opinion, but it’s not a model, it’s an infographic, right? So just even distinguishing things like that, I thought were important,

Lindsay Kemeny 26:08
yeah. And he went on to explain that all models are incomplete, and he is hoping that his is going to show a little bit more how the different components interrelate. And so in his model, and I don’t know if it’s online anywhere, I took a picture of the slide, so, like, maybe we can share that, but it he had everything. So when he was talking about Scarborough’s rope, he was saying he thinks it should start all together, like be woven together as one rope at the beginning, then split apart into the strands and then come back together again. And that is because he’s saying it all starts with language. So for his model, if you can, you know, imagine on your very left side you have language, that’s where it starts, and that’s birth. And he had these different ages, all right, so birth to pre K was just language. Then it went to kindergarten to grade one, and then that splits, and at the top is alphabetical skills, and below it is still language. Then it goes to grade one to three, and you have word recognition on the top language underneath, and there’s arrows going back and forth between them. And then you go grade three to an adult, and it’s reading fluency, and knowledge of the world is under that. And then at the very right end, they come back together for reading comprehension. So it was, yeah, I enjoyed learning about his model that pushed my thinking, it’s the real R, I, L, the real model reading is language model. And it was really kind of fun because he had us like doing choral responses, which I think is probably really new for him. But he so he was kind of joking. He was getting into it, because that’s, you know, what a lot of the others were doing. So he would go, reading is language and we, He’d have us, the whole 500 of us. Like repeating that several times throughout his presentation, which was really great.

Stacy Hurst 28:14
Yeah, he did say it was based on the simple view of reading, which was a helpful connection. And then I think the really powerful thing about his model is it’s a causal developmental model, and so I think that’s gonna have a big impact on teaching as we go forward with it.

Donell Pons 28:33
And I really appreciate folks like a Charles Hume, Maggie Snowling, and, you know, they’re married. I appreciated their humility, they’re very quick to say, You know what? I used to think this, and now I don’t think that anymore. I’ve been swayed to think this way. That’s really useful, very helpful to see someone doing that out loud at a conference,

Stacy Hurst 28:54
right? Oh, you know, I’m so glad you brought that up, because I actually, I really love the swag bag we get from this conference. And right now, in this moment, you’re probably gonna what the heck does that have to do with anything? But the point is the journals that come in there, the note taking things. And this is the second one I have now, but I I kept my first one, and I brought it with me, and I was looking back and Louisa modes in the last big sky conference I attended multiple times on a specific element. Would say I’m rethinking that one. Yeah, I am. Re examining my thinking about this. And I took note of that because I want to model that I rethink things all the time. But I it was very good to see that I agree. Donald, thanks for mentioning that.

Lindsay Kemeny 29:44
Yeah, it’s yeah. It’s such a good example for all of us, like we’re all going to be wrong sometimes, and our thinking and our knowledge

Donell Pons 29:53
evolves, yep, and expanding right.

Lindsay Kemeny 29:56
Yeah, constantly. So, yeah, good. Okay. Okay, so something that I think at first you would think maybe this was going to push your thinking, and then, like, there was a session, and then you’re like, oh, okay, I know what she’s saying. And I’m talking about Trina Spencer and Doug Peterson’s session. And Trina was mostly giving the presentation, and Doug would chime in, but she was, she kind of led with, hey, people have these faulty beliefs. And she had these three myths, so, and when you hear the first one, I mean, just, well, just see your reaction, like as you guys are listening the the first myth, she says, is this, and this was on a slide, and I’m just reading her slide. It said print concepts, phonological awareness, phonics and fluency, are foundational literacy skills. And she says, that’s a myth. Okay, so you’re probably right away like, what those are foundational skills? Right? Print concepts, phonological awareness, phonics and fluency. But her point was that is language. That’s the true one, and she chose to use the term pivotal for print concepts, phonological awareness, phonics and fluency. See, those are pivotal skills, but the true foundational skill is language. So maybe not as like you know, alarming as it might. Maybe you’d think right away, her, her next myth was reading comprehension. Instruction requires text. So that was the myth. Anyone want to explain what what she meant by that?

Stacy Hurst 31:46
Well, going back to the fact that it’s language, right, you can talk about comprehension. You don’t need to wait and and that one, I think, was less jarring. And Lindsay, you and I had a quick conversation as she went through these. But yeah, it was, it makes sense to me. We never say you can’t talk, you can’t teach comprehension until they know how to read. But she gave us very actionable information about that. So

Lindsay Kemeny 32:13
yeah, I think a lot of us know, like, No, you can do all this through read aloud. And that really is the point we can’t, like wait to worry about anything on the comprehension side until they’re reading like that would be ridiculous, right? And when they first come in and in kindergarten, we are focusing on our, yeah, comprehending that, our language comprehension, right? And she, she had said spoken language could be as complex or more than written language, too, was one of the points she was making there. And then her third myth was, language is acquired naturally, so no explicit instruction is necessary, even though, yes, a lot of language is learned implicitly. You do need some explicit instructions. Some students are going to need more than others, and of course, we’ve seen that. We’ve talked about that, especially students with a language disability, where they come in and they’re, you know, like this has happened several times for me, where I’m teaching first grade, but they’re, they’re speaking two or three word sentences, they’re going to need more intentional language instruction, or maybe they don’t have a disability, but maybe you get someone in your classroom who is brand new to English, they’re going to need more support as they’re learning the English language. So so there’s lots of reasons. Even our students, who seem to be speaking English fine, can be, you know, advantaged by having some explicit instruction and support. Let’s take them to the next level, right? Let’s, let’s help them grow their language. So I thought, you know, she, she started at the beginning like, Oh, here’s some here. We have a lot of faulty beliefs, but then once you got into it, you’re like, oh, yeah, okay, I see what she’s saying. All right. Did you hear anything that you want to point out that really resonated with you? Boy,

Donell Pons 34:12
I think there were so many things that resonated there wouldn’t be enough time. But one thing that was really interesting was talking about it was along that conversation of oral language, I believe it was in a group session, because there was some because there was some conversation back and forth, but not in Doug Peterson, Charles Hume, and there was some back and forth conversation about parent training is effective for two to five year olds to know what to do to improve oral language. Yet it’s no one’s professional role to train parents. Teaching parents takes skill. However, there’s no one in that role, which I thought was really interesting, to come up with this gaping giant hole where we know that we could do a lot of good, be very effective, to set some kids on the on a good path for language development and nothing there for it. I thought that was interesting.

Stacy Hurst 34:54
You know, Ann Kaiser brought that up too, and the one thing I wrote down from her presentation was our power lies in. Parents and she repeat, any chance she got, she would bring that up. That is a gap in this system.

Donell Pons 35:07
Yeah, another resource right, that we’re not utilizing?

Lindsay Kemeny 35:10
Yeah, I had written something down. Okay, so I love the little journal they gave us too, that we could write notes in. And I would, I would write my notes on the right side, and then, like on the left side of the book, I would like write my own little questions or notes or different things. I haven’t done this method before. I really liked it, but yeah, one of the things I had written over to the side is like, how can I get my parents to better understand the importance of language? And I don’t know that. I have an answer to that, but it’s just something that, like, I’ve been thinking about, you know, because, yes, she’s talking about how important it is for our parents to know that, and really think of all the language that is happening or not happening at home. What is, you know, how can we best get parents to know that? I don’t, I don’t know. And I’ve had, I’ve had, you know, parents concerned in my classroom when they have their child being pulled out for speech and language. They don’t like that because they they’re like, well, they need to learn how to read. And I’m specifically thinking of a child who had a Lang like, was being seen for language with the SLP, not just speech. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, but language is everything, right? That’s the theme. So they need that language. It’s going to support their reading and writing. So I’m just trying to think about how I can better let my parents know. And I mean, I’m thinking, this is just going to be something I’m including in my weekly emails or something, and I think I want to share with parents somehow, like the strive for five framework in in a very easy way. You know, that’s that conversation turn taking. I don’t know. It’s just something to think about, but I’m glad you mentioned,

Stacy Hurst 36:55
yeah, I actually thought about that systemically when I taught first grade, I had monthly parent trainings for the parents of the students in my class that’s above and beyond, and there’s no support for that, right? Like, not every teacher has time to do that, I would love to see some type of support for that kind of a thing. And then also, I do have access and I work with I’m so grateful I get to work with early childhood settings and situations. And I had the same thought to offer that training, especially the strive for five the book and the things that are in that can’t recommend that enough. I think that’s really palatable for parents as well. And so I love the idea to have weekly reminders Lindsay and some it Hugh Cat said this in his presentation. He said language is the mechanism of comprehension. Even when we talk to ourselves in our head, we use language right like when we’re thinking it involves language. So even something that simple, helping parents to understand might help them emphasize the need to develop that.

Donell Pons 38:05
And what would have to go along with that is something Charles Hume also brought into the conversation that was mandatory screening across the board for language, because then that alerts you. What does a parent do if they’re doing height and weight check and they say, Oh, the height doesn’t look so good, what can we do? Or the weight. What can we do with a child needs to gain weight, or maybe we have too much weight? What do we do? A diet is talked about. But how does a parent know if we’re not measuring oral language, and Charles said, it’s as much a public health concern as anything else we measure with height and weight, we also are looking for the benefit of this, this individual down the road, and thinking this is going to impact their lives. So does oral language? It very impactful for the rest of their life. So that was a really interesting part of the conversation, too.

Lindsay Kemeny 38:45
Yeah, and Stacy, I’ve always been so impressed, because I’ve heard you say that before. How, when you used to teach, you did these monthly parent meetings, I’m like, oh my goodness, I don’t think I could do that, but I that, I guess, hashtag goals, you know,

Stacy Hurst 39:01
or maybe quarterly,

Lindsay Kemeny 39:03
or maybe once a year, is my maybe I need to make that more achievable. But I’m thinking, Gosh, I think I could, at the end of my weekly email be like, you know, start out, did you know, and then maybe, like, just a little tip, you know, every time, or something anyway, something to think about. I can’t remember who’s who’s was that that resonated with them? Was that, Donnell, did you start that conversation about,

Stacy Hurst 39:30
I think you did. I think it was

Lindsay Kemeny 39:33
even something that really resonated with,

Stacy Hurst 39:35
Oh, shoot. I was like, Yeah, that one, um, you know what? I went to a session that there were maybe four or five of us in, and I’m gonna, I don’t know, I can’t find my notes, but I did take pictures, and I was very engaged. But it was this resonated with me, because it was a situation. Team where there was a very rural school in California that did not have even a full time teacher at one point, like it was a parent volunteer teaching this multi grade level class. They were very low in their reading ability, and so they came in and they tutored remotely these children as part of their school day. They delivered this instruction via zoom, and the results were very promising. And I thought that was a great example. What resonated with me about that is that they did whatever it took, right like and no, none of us would say Zoom is ideal, but they made it work, and it was better than nothing. So those kids got what they needed, and the gains they made were so impressive that it just and I think that, and having the conversation about parents and just the systemic nature of things, I felt like, if we all had that approach, well, let’s do whatever it takes, then we could come up with some really innovative ways to address needs, even if they’re not in the moment ideal. But that was impressive to me, and that that resonated in ways that I wasn’t expecting, actually,

Lindsay Kemeny 41:19
and I wrote something down that resonated with me, and it was Doug Peterson said it, and it was just so fast that I was like, gosh, did anyone else catch that? But I just thought it was so great he said this, and I just think it can apply to a lot of our different situations. He said, We are not in competition with each other. We are here to change the world. And I would just, like, love all of us, just to adopt that as, like, a motto, because we have so many, you know, we’re in this space. We have so many different schools, teachers, companies and like, I don’t like when we, like, try to undermine or, you know, sometimes adult egos just get in the way, where, you know, someone wants to be the best or or they aren’t going to recommend someone, because that is threatening to them, because they want to be at the top, or whatever it is. I just think I love that we’re not in competition with each other. We’re here to change the world, and that’s what we’re trying to do, we need to change the way our students are having access to this good we need all students have access to this excellent evidence based reading and writing instruction. And you know, I just wish more that everyone could unite under that. Does that make sense? So I don’t know, sometimes I just run into things, or hear things or hear a story, and I just thought it was such a great point that he made.

Stacy Hurst 42:47
That’s the power of having these recaps, honestly, because I didn’t catch that sure was there and heard him say it, but that’s an important point that you make, and also, for our listeners who weren’t there, even more, it demonstrates that he meant it because he is an author, right, of story champs. And we had Charles and Maggie hula, who are the authors of ox ed, and they were both like their content is similar for similar purposes, right, based on our language. And they both were presenting their research and rationale for their products. And I didn’t sense it was competitive. It was definitely not. Well, this is better than that, because or you should really be choosing this one or that one. I think they would all of those researchers would be happy to know it’s being addressed, no matter if it was either of those programs,

Lindsay Kemeny 43:41
yeah. Okay, my final question here, because we’re about out of time, is just, if there’s anything else that stood out to you, and I will start with this, I’ll start this one while you guys are thinking, because here’s something that stood out for me, and that is, I got to present. I was so excited to present at this conference, and I did a session on writing in early elementary which is such a fun session, like I’m excited for that session, just to be giving it more times throughout the year, because writing instruction is something I’m really passionate about and but what happened is I had my everything, everyone knows, like, anytime they’re like, are you nervous? And I’m like, I’m always nervous for the tech okay, but I was in there, Donnell made sure, right, that she’s like, I’ll be your runner if you need someone. I’m like, nope, my slides are set. I’m ready to go. I took my little, like, selfie with me in front of my slides. Then people came in, I was about to start when the power went out. At first, I was really panicking, until I realized, like it was out throughout the resort. And I’m like, Okay, it’s not just me. And and it came back on, and it went back off, and then, kind of like, some. Backup lights came came on because we were in the auditorium, so it was really dark, so some backup lights came on, but my slides were no longer able to be up and for everyone. And so, like, we go out in the hall, and we’re kind of like, Are we are we going? Are we waiting? At first, we’re going to wait for a few minutes, and then they’re like, oh no. We don’t know how long till the power is going to get back on, so just go. So I’m like, okay, but there’s like, I don’t have my slides. I mean, I had my slides, but no one could see them. And so I just, like, like a first grade teacher, I’m like, everyone come down to the rug, you know, come down and gather around my laptop, and I turn my laptop around and present presented basically in the dark. And I just felt bad, because my presentation is so visual, like with writing, you have writing samples and everything, but it was fine, and everyone was so nice, and it was really funny, because afterwards we we, well now I think it’s Nell that said this afterwards. I thought it was really great. She said, when we came back together after, she said, even though it was dark, we got enlightened. Like, I love that. But, like, literally, as soon as my presentation was done, the lights, the power came. Oh, that’s great. That’s just my luck. And then I was at dinner that night with a few others that were speaking the same time as me, and we were all joking, like, we need t shirts that said, say, like I presented during the Big Sky blackout, you know, or something. So anyway, that was kind of a funny moment that really stood out to me. Is there anything that happened at the conference, or anything else that you guys want to mention that stood out to you?

Donell Pons 46:50
Lindsay, I do just have to say you were true. And in my head, I’m thinking to myself, I am so glad I know not for you, for your sake, that you happen to be one of those presenters, because I knew you would just pick up and go on. You would make it happen. So I thought these are the most capable hands for this situation. I’m so sorry it had to happen to you, but if it’s gonna happen to anyone, it’s gotta be someone who knows exactly how to pick up and carry on, which is just so great for you. And like we said after wouldn’t you know? I mean, that was you were so prepared, and then you walk in and boom, and that’s the one thing you have no control over.

Speaker 1 47:25
I know so sad. One of

Donell Pons 47:29
the things that stood out to me, just to say it over again, if we haven’t heard it enough, and something that we heard a lot, was oral language, oral language, oral language, and reading is language, all of those phrases. So it’s just expanding. Maybe, if that’s expanding your viewpoint of what you think of when you think of reading, maybe that’s where the beginning is for you. Maybe that’s something that pushes on that and says, Oh, that’s more than I thought about.

Stacy Hurst 47:55
You know, in the session we were in with Louisa Moats Lindsay, the breakout session when she came out of retirement, maybe we should just keep stating that so she doesn’t say that. For her sake, she won’t hear this episode yet, in case she does Welcome back, we missed you no but I loved that. The question was, so what now? What? What are you going to do based on what you’ve learned to change your practice? And that was that’s when she said she was coming out of retirement, that’s what she was going to do as a result of the things we were focusing on in the conference. So I also loved that. That stood out Dr Elsa Cardenas Hagan, who said in her talk as well, the true change is to make better your current environment. So kind of shrinking the change too. So it’s not so overwhelming, but I have added to a lesson plan that I use as my students a language objective. That’s one small change that I’m going to make, and you know, I hope to make many more, but I hope that helps my my pre service teachers know how important that is. Donnell Lindsay, did you have anything that you were viewers talking Lindsay about how you’re going to address this with your parents, anything else you’re going to implement as a result?

Lindsay Kemeny 49:23
Yeah, oh, putting me on the spot. I’m sorry. No, it’s good, like I’m we are just in the second week of school as we’re recording this, so we just started, and I’m trying to be so much more, I guess, intentional, with ways to add in language, lots of turn and talks. Trying to be better about giving each partner a job, you know, like Anita Archer says, because that’s something I’m never very good at. I always just like, turn and talk to your partner. But I I’m trying to be like, you know, partner one, do this. Partner to do that. Say. This or whatever. And I was talking to my students last week about like, like, you also need to show your partner you’re listening, you know, and how can we show them that we’re listening and and so I’m thinking a lot about how to fit that more in and during like, my close reading part of the day, really thinking about how language is the driver there, and what I can be embedding with language and and so that’s just kind of what I’ve been thinking about. Next year the Big Sky Conference will be August, 26 through 29th they announced that I’m a little sad I won’t be able to be there next year, because that’s when our school year will have started, and it’s too hard for me to miss at the beginning of the year. But for any listeners, that’s when it will be. Donell, did you have anything else you wanted to share?

Donell Pons 50:57
No, just, I mean, all of it’s fantastic. And amend everything everybody has said, and it gave me, kind of revitalized me into thinking, I need to get back in there and stay involved in scaling up excellent reading instruction for all students and be a part of that. Okay?

Stacy Hurst 51:12
And reading is language, yeah. And I would, I would add to that, like, if you can make it next year, then it is well worth it. The one thing that I think, well, not the one thing, one of the things that I think Dr Nell, as people refer to her, as does really well, is creating this sense of home. Because the place that conference is in we’ve spent very little time talking about that. It’s amazing. If you live at low altitude, be prepared to adjust, but it’s beautiful, and I think of it as summer camp. It’s like you’re at summer camp, only you’re learning things all the time, and even when the lights went out. In fact, in that one was very summer campy, but, yeah, I just, I love the whole, the whole vibe, as the kids say, but it was really great. So I appreciated being there with the both of you. This is the first time we’ve all three been to that conference at the same time, so that was fun, and I really have appreciated this conversation. So thank you Lindsay for leading it, and thank you to those of you who’ve tuned in to hear about Big Sky. Talk to your friends who went I’m sure they’ll have other great things to add, and we hope that you’ll join us for our next episode of literacy talks.

Narrator 52:46
Thanks for joining us today. Literacy talks comes to you from Reading Horizons, where literacy momentum begins. Visit readinghorizons.com/literacytalks to access episodes and resources to support your journey in the science of reading.